Plywood, Cork and Track in N scale

Tim Holmes May 10, 2020

  1. Tim Holmes

    Tim Holmes TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Folks: IM planning a layout in N scale -- ive been watching the Canadian Canyons video series from Model Railroader, and I notice in that series, David Popp chose to put cork directly on the plywood and then track on the cork, Does this provide sufficient sound dampening, or should I try to put a layer of Homosate over it (worried about switch rod lengths etc at that point)

    Your feedback appreciated!

    TIM
     
  2. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    A number of folks choose to put a layer of pink insulation foam instead. I have 1/2 inch Owenings Corning. Advantages is it comes in varying thicknesses and easily carved with a hot knife cutter plus is lighter weight. Stream beds are easier to carve.
     
  3. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    You don't say what the dimensions of this layout will be. The Canadian Canyons layout was a 6'x8' L shaped sectional layout. Depending on space yours maybe smaller or larger. You'll hear a lot of others opine as to what they do. This is my method so here goes. Cork on plywood has been the traditional method of roadbed. Homosote is very heavy plus it is a pressed paper product which can delaminate when scenery techniques using water are employed. Insulation foam, either pink or blue, will compress if weigh is placed on it. Use it for scenery forms but not for sub roadbed. Design your layout to be portable. Sections should be no larger than 2' X 6'. That will fit through doorways, around corners and up stairs. You may have no intentions of moving the layout now but the future might dictate otherwise. The term 'permanent layout' is an oxymoron. Build the layout like an airplane not like a battleship. Light and strong is better than heavy and strong. You do not need thick plywood. Quarter inch thick is max if you support it with splines of 1/8 X one inch of Masonite. In effect you are building a beam bridge between supports that is 1" thick but only a fraction of the weight of a similar thickness of plywood. Use risers to elevate the roadbed above the sectional benchwork. This will allow you to vary the topographical features of the layout to include scenery below track level as well as above track level. Both Homosote and insulation foam will sag between supports over time. Using the spline method insures that your track is supported every inch of the way. Don't worry about the sound. Once you glue the ballast down the track, ballast and roadbed are bonded together and that eliminates or reduces any vibrations. And finally, in the end you will be the one who has to live with what you built.
     
  4. umtrr-author

    umtrr-author TrainBoard Member

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    My two and a half cents...

    I've been slowly going through the Model Railroader 1934-1999 archive (installed from DVD onto a USB drive for convenience). It is amazing to me how long the question of sound deadening has been out there. I don't recall the exact issue, but I believe it was the late 1940's, where there was an almost Consumer Reports-style long form article comparing different brands of HO track (Atlas, Tru-Scale for two) with different underlays (wood, wood with cork, etc). I'm pretty sure asbestos sheet (!!!) was one of the ingredients as well. The results were, let us say, inconclusive. I don't think the authors were particularly satisfied with anything!

    Meanwhile, back here in 2020, my technique-- restarted as of last night -- yes, you read it here first, I am starting the long-delayed reboot of the Wilmington and New York!!! -- is cork directly over two inch thick extruded polystyrene sheet also known as pink, blue or green foam depending on the Big Box from which it's purchased. I have had people tell me this is WAY TOO LOUD and others tell me it's just right. So, your mileage may vary...
     
    MP333 likes this.
  5. bill pearce

    bill pearce TrainBoard Member

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    When I had my Cajon layout (MRP 1999) i used mainly cork on plywood, and David Haines used the same construction on his Raton Layout. We both found noise negligible. It wass never a problem, and given time our brains blocked it out. We both even considered filing little places in the track at scale 39 foot intervals to simulate the real thing, but never felt it so necessary to do all the substantial work. We both concluded that the folks that were concerned about the sound from plastic wheels on track were just looking for problems. Consider if you will find the extra expenses and work woth the results.
     
    SP-Wolf likes this.
  6. tonkphilip

    tonkphilip TrainBoard Member

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    Tim, I have an 18 x8 ft N sectional layout. I started with code 55 track then cork, then 4 inches of pink foam. Over the years, I have replaced nearly all the foam with 3/4 inch plywood and cork under the track. The foam was much noisier than the plywood. The foam however is excellent for scenery. - tonkphilip
     
  7. tonkphilip

    tonkphilip TrainBoard Member

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    It is worth pointing out that most people get good results with 1/2 inch plywood for their layouts. But 3/4 inch plywood allows me to have minimal support joists or poor carpentry!
     
  8. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    My layout is simplified in that I have used two HC doors mounted on cabinet bases. It is over laid by two 1/2 inch sheets of pink insulation foam totaling 1 inch in thickness. I have Kato unitrack mounted directly to the foam and noise is minimal. Just the hum of the little mechanisms and the click clack of wheels over joints. Real railroads make noise.
     
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  9. Tim Holmes

    Tim Holmes TrainBoard Member

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    Mine will be an around the wall in a 10 x 10 room (I'll be sleeping under part of it) -- most of it about 24 - 30 inches wide with a couple wider spots for the end loops
     
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  10. tonkphilip

    tonkphilip TrainBoard Member

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    Tim, Your plywood and cork plan is perhaps the most common method of constructing a layout, so go right ahead. For reference, I use Tortoise switch machines mounted under the plywood. It really helps if you can install the Tortoises before you fix down the plywood. I tip and fix the pieces of plywood 90 degrees and then you can see both sides of the plywood, walk around to both sides and fix the switch machines and lay out wiring without getting a pain in your neck. Of course, you need to mark out and lay the switches in position first before fixing the switch machines. Peco track is nice because the spring allows you to manually operate ones that are in reach, so no need for the switch machine on most. Also, Kato Unitrack is nice because the switch machine is inside the turnout, on top of the plywood. - Tonkphilip
     
  11. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    The Canadian Canyons video which you referenced in your first post has some very good advice in it. Pay attention to those areas where they had to make changes to their original plan and be very mindful of the corner(s). Plan a way for you to easily access the furthest part of the corner because any trouble there will cause some really big headaches among other things.
     
    Tim Holmes likes this.
  12. Tim Holmes

    Tim Holmes TrainBoard Member

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    Ya, very true that --
     
  13. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Cork upon a wooden surface is probably and has been, the most common form for a long time. Some folks have sound issues. I am not certain why. I have never had such, whether raw construction, or after scenery was installed. A bit of noise would not bother me, as real trains are not quiet. And I recall all the clatter of childhood Lionel, etc, trains, which then such noise was part of the fun....
     
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  14. Tim Holmes

    Tim Holmes TrainBoard Member

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    I dont mind a bit of noise, but as I will be running sound decoders in my locos, I'd like to be able to hear them instead of the roar of wheels on the rails!

    TIM
     
  15. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have rarely ever heard any noise via wheels on rails, excepting a click at rail joints, which might be that disrupting. (But that may also change somewhat between metal or plastic wheel sets.) What I hear more is the whirring of the motors and gear train sounds. A short time ago, just for fun, was running a small train around on several T-Trak modules. They are a combination of Kato Unitrack and Atlas flex on cork, all on half inch plywood. The Kato NW2's modest growl stood out over all other noise. If I were to have it DCC equipped, sound would have been easily audible.

    I have been in N scale since 1972 and model railroading well exceeding 60 years now. What I have learned- In the end, go with what you believe will be your best option.
     
    gmorider likes this.
  16. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I use 2 layers of 2" foam atop a HCD, and cork roadbed then track. Like others said, it can be somewhat noisy, but makes fantastic, lightweight scenery.
    In the end, it's all about your budget, tools, abilities, and such that will drive your choice.
     
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  17. gmorider

    gmorider TrainBoard Member

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    Please Sir, remind me what HDC stands for.
     
  18. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    That motor noise may not be the fault of the locomotive. Had an ABBA set of ER Models sharks. Ran them on my test track with an MRC 1500 power pack and they sounded absolutely terrible. Brought them down to the club and ran them on our Aristo Craft throttles and they were completely quiet. The difference was the Aristo Craft throttles were running on pure filtered DC while the MRC had a pulse built in to their throttle. Those sharks were run at every train show and people would ask me how I got mine to run so quiet as theirs were noisier. Asked them if they were using an MRC pack, which they were, told them to solve the problem they should get a filtered DC power supply.
     
    gmorider likes this.
  19. JimJ

    JimJ Staff Member

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    HCD= hollow core door. Great rigid base for a small table top style layout.
     
  20. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

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    I have had track on many different types of surfaces. Cork on ply, cork on pink foam, track directly on ply, Kato Unitrack on ply or foam and I found that the sound is more of a product of the total design of the benchwork than it is on the type of roadbed/track combo. The thickness of the ply and how sturdy the benchwork is seems to dampen or magnify any sounds the trains make. I tend to overbuild my benchwork and it usually is pretty quiet. A few times I have been building for light weight and used thinner materials and less bracing and this seemed to be the louder setups irregardless of the track/roadbed combination.
     

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