Passenger developments on the Turtle Creek Central.

John Moore May 12, 2020

  1. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Being stuck inside and cooler weather slowing my work in the garden I decided to take stock of the Turtle Creek passenger inventory. In the back in the yellow or light yellow are three sets of mini RDCs made from Bandai B trains.

    The next blue train is a express passenger and mail train.
    The blue train in front is express mail and baggage train with limited passenger carrying. One car each of the blue trains was modified into a diner for the express passenger and a cafe car for the express mail.

    Two more blue coaches are on order from Japan along with two dome castings from Shapeways to make those car into short full dome cars.

    On the right side of the photo are two rail buses I built with Kato mechanisms and a first run edition of the Galloping Goose. The rear rail bus features electrical pick-up in the trailer car giving me four axle pick up spread out.
     
  2. Run8Racing

    Run8Racing TrainBoard Member

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    Also looking at my TCC passenger ops. My TCC is a bit different. ALL 8-wheel Alcos !!! I will use FA2/FB1/FA2 for the "Dashing Turtle" long distance train and FA1 for "The Tortoise" commuter train. First step is a dip in Chameleon. Always good to have date with stripper !!!(y)(y)(y)
     
  3. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    When I started planning this layout I realized that normal passenger trains would overwhelm the small stations, and would not look good on the tight curves planned. Even the 60 foot cars were too big for my use and the only cars available were the Bachmann old time and the 34 foot Overtons. Then I found the little 30 foot Bandai cars and with the selection of roofs provided was able to come up with my little RDCs that operate well on my 8.5 inch radius. I could model them as either electric or diesel depending on the roof chosen. I do wish that Microscale had made an all N scale decal sheet for the decals instead of the muiti scale sheets.
     
  4. Run8Racing

    Run8Racing TrainBoard Member

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    I agree with the decal sheets !!! There is a way to reduce them, but I don't know how. I also have the wrong type of printer. Probably some copyright BS involved also, but I don't care about that !!!
     
  5. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    Nice work on the equipment. What are you using for motive power on the intercity and mail trains?

    You do have to go small on curves that sharp. I cut down a C-C RDC-3 and put it onto the Kato RDC-4 chassis. I am surprised at how well the C-Cs fit onto the Kato chassis. You will get away with that one on eleven to thirteen and three quarter curves. It does have to run over one section of nine and three quarter. It barely gets away with that, but it does. They look allright when run singly. If you couple any other RDCs to it, even cut down, they look silly. I did cut down one C-C RDC-2, as well, and put it onto a cut-down C-C dummy RDC chassis. It looks allright on a thirteen and three quarter curve; passable on an eleven but silly on a nine and three quarter.



    Does the commute use HEP? The FA-2/FB-2 as well as the FB-1 all had room for a steam generator, but the FA-1 did not, at least not as ALCo advertised it. Still, you might get away with a steam generator in an FA-1. One or two of the Grange roads had regular sized F-7s with steam generators. FM offered a four axle C-Liner with a steam generator, as well, but sold none in the U.S. of A. It did sell some in Canada, though. The C-Liners with steam generators sold in this country were the five axles. Both the F-7 and especially the FM were somewhat longer than the FA-1, though.

    What are you using for freight power?
     
  6. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    The blue train, passenger express, has roof vents that don't show in the photo. Power underneath the shell is two Bandai 8 wheel drive mechanisms.
    The mail express uses two RDCs at each end and again Bandai 8 wheel drive mechanisms power each cab. I actually am over powered since each Bandai mechanism is good for 20 or more Scale 40 footers.

    My freight power is 44 and 70 tonners with a couple of DD-51s thrown in. Steam consists of Shays, Climaxes, and several tank locos. Going small is the name of the game with freight cars all at 40 foot and under. Like I have said before N scale with a narrow gauge flavor in curvature and rolling stock.
     
  7. Run8Racing

    Run8Racing TrainBoard Member

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    Since I've been busted (Thanks, Brokemoto !!!), I will add SG stacks to both FA and FB1. I'm guessing the SG was in the "cab" section of the FB ??? My TCC engine shop is very talented and they were able to squeeze SG into the FA1, so :p !!!
    My freight will be handled by 3 pairs of RS11s, long end forward (because it's just cool !!!). Yard switching will be two C415s. Cabeese will be bay-window transfer, ala MP.
     
  8. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    You really can not have any freight cars longer than forty feet when you have eight and one half curves. Forty four and seventy tonners, as well as geared steam works. The tanks and the geared do not need turning facilities. I assume that this is the reason for the power at each end of the mail train?


    On the FPA-2, they were on the square panel at the Number Two end of the locomotive. I do not know where ALCo would have put them on the FB-1. If ALCo ever sold an FB-1 set up for passenger work, I am not aware of it. It did advertise the FA-1/FB-1 as being available with a steam generator in the B-unit. ATSF practice for its F-units had steam generators in the B units only. This was a holdover from its passenger FTs, where the steam generator was in the B-unit, only. ATSF never had FAs. B&O had some A-A pairs of F-3s ordered as pairs. One had a steam generator; the other extra water tanks.

    If the FPB-2 is at all instructive, the steam generator stacks on it were, in fact on the A end, where the cab would be if it were an A unit. That is, the stacks were at the end opposite the large fan. B&O had FPB-2s in addition to FPA-2s. I have seen only one rooftop photograph of a FPB-2 and it was a B&O. the caption did note that the steam generator stacks were on the A end of the B-unit. Accordingly, when I did my B&O FPA-2/FPB-2 combination from the LL issue, I put the steam generator stacks on the A end. I do not know how many U.S. roads had FPB-2s other than B&O. Several of them had FPA-2s. The Canadian Roads had FPA-2s and FPB-2s.

    Thus, I would expect that on your FB-1, you would put the steam generator stacks on the A end.

    As your FA-1 with a steam generator would be a home job, you might get away with unconventional stacks or placement thereof. A home added steam generator would not be unusual. NYCS and D&H added the steam generators ro RS-2s after they left Schenectady. Thus, in contrast to the angled escape stack against the cab that Schenectady used, those locomotives had a "stovepipe" escape stack at the very front of the short hood and in the middle. The vent stack was moved to the middle of the short hood on those models from its place to the left and forward when used with the angled stack. MoPac bought Babyfaces from Baldwin with the intention of adding steam generators, but, never did it. I wonder if this was because they spent too much time in the shop as it was.

    This is in contrast to the EMD Bs, where the steam generator stacks were on the Number Two end. ATSF did have some E-8Bs that held two steam generators and had stacks at each end. The C-C/RR E-8B is based on that prototype.

    Several roads had F-3s with steam generators. One or two of the grange roads had regular F-7s with them. EMD did build FP-7s that were some four feet longer than the regular F-7 to accommodate the steam generator. There were FP-9s, as well, but, those may have been upgraded FP-7s, I am not sure. EMD never did have an FP-3. FM dealt with the "problem" by adding an idler axle on the aft truck to help support the steam generator. Despite that FM did offer a passenger configuration for its four axle C-liners. It did not sell any in the U.S. of A., but did sell some in Canada. It also sold five axle B-units in Canada.


    Several roads did operate them that way when they first appeared. One or two roads had passenger versions of them and did operate them that way. I do not remember if N&W had RS-11s before its Wabash/NYC&StL takeover, but, if it did, it would have operated them that way.
     
  9. leikec

    leikec TrainBoard Member

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    N&W RS-11's were delivered to the railroad starting in 1956 with the last ones coming in 1961.

    Jeff C
     
  10. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    Here is one as it runs LHF. This is 5722, SP's only RS-11 that had a steam generator. ALCo had three demonstrators, one of which was equipped with a steam generator. SP bought all three.



    [​IMG]
     
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  11. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    When I designed this last version of the TCC I decided to do away with a space eating turntable and all the wiring headaches that cam with it. The Bandai cab units were already in hand at that time and then I decided that the remaining rod steam would shed their tenders and become 2-6-0Ts witjh a pilot grafted on the rear. The entire motive power roster became bi-directional with no need of space eating wyes or turn tables.

    On the subject of steam generators GN had some early FT and Fs that had the steam generator in the B unit and the As carried extra water. The units operated in freight service and passenger service. And as an alternative one could build a steam generator car. GN, NP, SP&S, and SP all had them to name a few. They were made from converted tenders, boxcars, and short baggage cars or Short RPOs.
     
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  12. Run8Racing

    Run8Racing TrainBoard Member

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    LOVE that pic !!! Told ya' they look cool LHF !!! If I had seen this a long time ago, I may have changed directions. I did see pics of East coast roads using RS11s for passenger service. Sticking with my FAs and my goofy story behind them. Shells are stripped, detail parts on hand or on order, etc. I do appreciate the info. Was gonna' forego SG stacks and hope nobody noticed. Now I know better !!! BTW, my TCC will be bright yellow. MIGHT do a Bicentennial unit, not sure. Also undecided on silver trucks / tanks.
     
  13. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    You do get more than a few wiring headaches. You are constantly forgetting to throw switches to align polarities. Ihave used two turntables: Atlas and Walthers. Neither had reliable contact on the bridge track.


    If it works as a model, grand. If you consider the prototype, you will find that most road tank locomotives had both pilot and trailing trucks. This helped to lessen tire wear on the drivers. If you can extend the fuel bunkers on your locomotives enough, you can add a trailing truck.

    NYNH&H had passenger RS-11s. Either NYC&StL or Wabash also had them. SP had several RS-11s, but only one had a steam generator. ALCo had steam generator controls in the other two demonstrators, but never put a steam generator into those two. SP did not put in any, either, after it bought them. One or both of the two large Canada roads also had passenger RS-11s. Most of SP's were set up for short hood forward, but it had dual control stands put into the demonstrators.

    The rectangular vent stack is similar on the road switchers and the cab units for 244 engined ALCo s. Thus, if you purchase the RS-2/3 steam generator detail parts kit, you could use the vent stack. The escape stack on 244 powered ALCo cab units was a short, circular stack. You could fashion one yourself from a PLASTRUCT or Evergreen tube. You likely would get away with one of the rounded stacks from the EMD steam generator detail kit, as well.

    Mid 1970s is late for ALCo cab units. Most roads had gotten rid of their FA-1s by the mid 1960s. Some FA-2s did last into the early 1970s, but, most were traded in by that time. Your excuse could be that TCC re-purchased them from GE or Chrome Crankshaft. You might even change a few external details to reflect a re-engine job with either an EMD 567 or an ALCo 251. Most re-powering jobs did not last long, which suggests that they were not successful. A few notable exceptions were Penn's sharks that it had re-powered with ALCo 251s. They lasted until the late 1960s. Some of Rock Island's re-power jobs lasted into the late 1960s, as well. I am aware of only one 244 powered cab unit that a US Road had repowered with a 251. I do not remember the details, but, I seem to recall that it was a LV FA-2. The re-power was done at ALCo's request. ALCo fronted the money. If LV liked it, it would pay something for it. LV had the 244 put back into it after the trial, so it might not have gone well. There was another road, I forget which one, took an entire class of locomotives, I forget who built them; sent half to ALCo for 251s and the other half to EMD for 567s. Neither lasted long, as I recall.
     

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