On CIVIL WAR ERA Rail Lines

jtomstarr Aug 11, 2018

  1. jtomstarr

    jtomstarr TrainBoard Member

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    hoosiersojer, MVP, JimJ and 2 others like this.
  2. jtomstarr

    jtomstarr TrainBoard Member

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    All,

    According to this The YORK was originally built as a 0-4-0 and No. 73. This is from Gunnarsons book on the NORTHERN CENTRAL RAILWAY... I believe ATLAS and Bachmann should take note of this.Have fun in attempting to recreate Bachmann's model of The YORK 4-4-0 to the correct and Historical Status ! Have to love Bachmann.. etc for some inconstancies on history and historical Locomotives.

    Tom

    N.C. RY Roster.JPG
     
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  3. badlandnp

    badlandnp TrainBoard Member

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    It would be neat to see how they modified an old 0-4-0 to a 4-4-0. I assume they stretched the boiler as well as the frame!
     
  4. jtomstarr

    jtomstarr TrainBoard Member

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    All,

    I resided in CANANDAIGUA,NY 1983-1984, my brother and I walked, I took photo’s of what was left of the NC RY then around CANANDAIGUA,NY and Sodus,NY. Heaven knows what happened to the photos... if I find them I’ll post.

    Tom
     
  5. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Wasn't this an NYC line?
     
  6. jtomstarr

    jtomstarr TrainBoard Member

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    BoxcabE50,
    No the NC=NORTHERN CENTRAL RY, was a PRR backed railway though the NC RY shared the CANANDAIGUA,NY Station with the CANANDAIGUA and NIAGARA FALLS RR which became part of NYC and was part of nyc’s peanut rail line. This book should explain it all.

    Tom

    NC Ry Book.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  7. Rich_S

    Rich_S TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Tom, Both Atlas and Bachmann have produced 4-4-0 steam locomotives in N scale, although I do not believe either one has produced that paint scheme.

    http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=265_372_378

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/N-Scale-At...AOSwKJhbQ6-o&_nkw=Atlas+4-4-0&_from=R40&rt=nc
     
  8. jtomstarr

    jtomstarr TrainBoard Member

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    Rich_S,

    Yes I know that I happen to have a few of the Bachmann 4-4-0's in both N-SCALE and ho-SCALE and one of which is IHC's version of the Jupiter tat I am seeking a full replacement Locomotive Shell for the IHC Version.

    Tom
     
  9. jtomstarr

    jtomstarr TrainBoard Member

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    All,

    Here's a photo of what I believe The NORTHERN CENTRAL RAILWAY'S No.17 -YORK- was originally built as.

    Tom 53854758_2293867540672948_8936056883874103296_o.jpg
     
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  10. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    As a member of the Heritage Rail Alliance, I've spent some time around some of the very best rail restoration experts in the US, working with the Smithsonian, Cal State RR museum, Nevada State RR museum, and the debates around what color something actually was are the most hotly contested.

    And it's still subjective. But some of the most 'historic' civil war steam around like the William Mason, and the Promontory NPS recreations, etc. have heated discussions about paint scheme and color, as written descriptions are usually what they go with, along with 'same color' issues that surface on other items, locomotives, etc. I know when I was doing my model of S&T 4, the ex-C&NW 4-4-0 with that bright Russia Iron jacket, the exact color and way to simulate Russia Iron on modern materials was a real debate. Some of these guys have little scraps of the original material that have showed up, and take it very, very seriously. The color palette on civil war era stuff seems pretty wide open, with so many builders and ornamentation. And several museums have repainted their stuff as new facts emerged. Really, only the V&T 4-4-0's survived from the start with some evidence of original colors.

    Now with the York, it gets really complicated. Are you simulating the original York, or the Steam Into History current reproduction York? I know that both Dave Kloke (the builder) and the original SIH members did a lot of research, they think they got it, maybe, but remember it's also a reproduction model done by O'Conner Engineering in 1968 of UP 119 redone from photos and some dimensions, and the current York was built from those plans and 'detailed up' closer to York 17. And now the first one of Kloke's new builds, the Leviathan, has been sold to the Star Barn site in Elizabethtown. That owner is a real Lincoln fan to the core, and is attempting to redo the Leviathan as close as humanly possible to the appearance of the PRR locomotive that pulled the funeral train over his property. Nowhere near as colorful, but to him, accuracy really matters. I 'think' the Leviathan is being redone as PRR 331, here shown at Harrisburg on the point of the Lincoln Funeral Train: https://yorkblog.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2013/08/LincolnEngineA.jpg

    So now I'm Atlas, with a pretty decent 4-4-0, trying to figure out what schemes to offer my model in that will sell, and I'm getting a headache.... do I go with the historians, or reproduce the reproduction that's still running, and if so, which one on which locomotive?

    My own 4-4-0, as delivered: https://www.shorpy.com/node/14355
    Exiled to PA on a logging railroad by 1904: http://www.randgust.com/S&T4.jpg
    As modeled with the Atlas 4-4-0: http://www.randgust.com/S&T409.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  11. Tony Burzio

    Tony Burzio TrainBoard Supporter

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    Russia Iron is stainless steel, but...

    It’s a LOT of stainless steel. Huge. At that scale, what you perceive depends on what is reflecting off a big hunk of iron like that. Some saw light blue, which was the sky. Others swore it was green, yup, trees and other foliage. At our scale, painting the boiler stainless steel is correct, but it doesn’t model what a person a couple hundred feet away would perceive.

    My live steam engine jacket paint is somewhat metallic, powder blue in bright sunlight and tends toward dull grey toward sunset.

    Baldwin Lake, a brown color popular in the era, has strong purple shades to make the color so rich.
     
  12. jtomstarr

    jtomstarr TrainBoard Member

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  13. Tony Burzio

    Tony Burzio TrainBoard Supporter

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    I once sprayed water on an out of control BBQ grill. Heated metal + rain = Instant rust. Locomotives can protect from rust with brass, but the boiler is just too big. Still, Russia Iron was hideously expensive, think shuttle tiles. When the Ukrainians who made the stainless sheets were slaughtered by the Communists, there was quite the commotion in paint circles to develop a suitable high temperature paint.
     
  14. Hansel

    Hansel TrainBoard Member

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    With Janney couplers?
     
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  15. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Staff Member

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    Who was Janney?;)
    [​IMG]
     
  16. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    Russia iron is Russia iron, and the process for making it was so difficult and well guarded that it's not regarded as stainless steel, even though the end result is somewhat similar. It's not something done well just with paint. You have to remember that making a sheet of it was an incredible manual process, the stuff was essentially hand-forged and 'magic stuff' of its time.

    You'll see a lot of models painted silver on the boiler and that just doesn't do it justice. I started with Testors Stainless Steel, buffed it, and then buffed in Neolube on top of it and was absolutely stunned by the reflective characteristics and color depth that I got when I did that. One of the best experiments I ever did and easily repeatable.

    My go-to guy on simulating this stuff was Kyle Wyatt of the California State Railroad Museum, and if you want to really understand how this material was the wonder of its time and so popular for locomotive jackets, here you go:
    http://www.narrowgauge.iform.com.au/russian-iron.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019 at 1:37 PM
  17. Tony Burzio

    Tony Burzio TrainBoard Supporter

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    Why do the Europeans use buffers? It’s because of their choice of two axle small cars. Without the buffers, these cars will “crab” and derail. The Rio Grande tried two axle cars without buffers, and they promptly derailed, the survivors were promptly rebuilt into 4 axle, two truck cars.

    The trade-off was weight. Two axle cars carry more load compared to car weight. The American solution was to build “really big” cars so the percentage difference for a “truck” was smaller. In the long run this was a better idea, since small railroad cars can be out-competed by lorries (trucks).
     

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