I'm surprised Kato hasn't followed the CZ with a RGZ set. There may be other pocket streamliners such as Wabash that could use repainted CZ cars. They could also do some CB&Q Z's. The slow sales of the new EB may mean that we don't want Kato to merely pull a ConCor & do repainted sets of smoothsides or corrugated cars. If Kato were smart, they'd see the huge hole in the market for heavyweights.
Glenn et al: The GN cars have not sold slowly! They delivered three batches of them. The first two came in about 45 days apart. The third about 30 days later. Until the third set, they went faster than dealers could get them. We still sell about 2 sets each week. Very acceptable in my book. Yes I also would like heavyweight cars. However I'd like them from a mfr. that understands single car sales are important. Most major RRs ran heavyweight head end cars well into the streamline era on their version of the "Fast Mail". Some smaller roads ran them rather than incur the expense of a streamline fleet (Cotton Belt for example) when they knew their trains would always be second tier to the large lines in their region. As singles we can build our own "Fast Mail" or similar train. The ATSF #7-8 ran with as many as 15 head end cars and only one coach. Unfortunately heavyweight cars were even more individualized to each RR than the streamlined cars. With tooling in the $50-75k range per car you have to do a lot of cars to recover that investment. Some mfrs. have stated it takes as many as 35,000 copies sold to recover the tooling investment. The N market is pickier than other scales and inaccurate tooling is destroyed in the modeler press(internet etc.) very quickly, even when it is accurate.
Glenn, You can already put together a pretty decent RGZ with the D&RGW cars available from the two CZ sets. Dome Coach- Silver Bronco Dome Coach- Silver Colt Diner-Silver Banquet Flat Top Coach- Silver Aspen (converted from 16 section sleepers in 1962) Dome Obs-Silver Sky Thats a five car consist right there. If you want to add 2 more cars for length, add in the two 10-6 sleepers, Silver Glacier and Silver Gorge (its your train!). Add your choice of motive power like an F7 A/B, and you are good to go. This is a pretty easy consist to assemble...and you can do it with all Kato (except for the loco---but you can use a Kato F3, or an IMRC F7).
CZ - The NP only had two FP7s and they were typically used north from St. Paul on some of the shorter runs. NCL power was mainly F3/F7/F9, so that's one less reason for Kato to not do the NCL. :thumbs_up: If they were to use the F7, I am concerned that they would stick with their normal practice of making the side grills silver, which would be incorrect since the NP always kept theirs painted to match the dark green of the Loewy scheme.
Jack, There are plenty of reasons to do an NCL---it would be a really nice train to have. Leon has already said no, however, and thats the only negative I need to hear. Although it would be great to have a Kato GG-1 if a Pennsy set, I highly doubt they would go that route. We would most probably get a rerun of the E8. Maybe they could do a better job with the color this time... ANY big eastern rr would be welcome, NYC, PRR or B&O...any name train from that trio would be a home run. All three at some point would just about complete most of my needs.
Hey, If Kato came out with a GG-1(which I suggested about a year ago) I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Along with new cars,of course.A Keystone Ltd. would be welcome. A 21st Centery would be nice too.:shade:
Secret Weapon, A GG-1 would be a HUGE breakthrough not only for Kato, but for the hobby. N scale needs a new GG-1. I won't even buy an old Arnold model because I don't want to se t myself up for disappointment. Whoever does a GG-1 will have a blowout on their hands. It would sort of be like the CZ and Super Chief sets...guys who don't come close to modeling anything close to those roads bought those sets for the simple reason that they are so nice. Anyone modeling an eastern road would pick up a G for nostalgia and just because its something different. And look at all the roads you could have: PRR (green, tuscan, and silver for the Congo), PC black, Amtrak. They would ALL sell out without exception. Great ideas eveyone, but there must be more. What will the next nice passenger train to come out be, and who will put it out?
The good thing with an El Capitan is that Kato can release certain cars in Amtrak scheme as well as ATSF, as Amtrak used some of that hi-level equipment mixed in with the Superliners.
I'll take a N&W Powhatan Arrow set please:teeth: . I'll probably never see an L&N South Wind, Hummingbird, or Pan American:sad:
River-series observation cars [Discussing the Kato UP smoothside cars] You are correct, Rick. That Kato observation is an exact match for the Pullman-Standard Plan 4082 car. The NYC had 3 built in 1938 for the Southwestern Limited. They also ran on the 20th Century Limited 1942-1946 after which they went to other name trains and general service assignments. The B&O bought all 3 River-series cars from the NYC in 1956. They ran on the National Limited (New York-Washington-St. Louis) and even retained the same names. The Genesee River is in the B&O Museum. The Wabash River was wrecked. The fate of Maumee River is unknown. So now we have several possibilities - just add the correct other cars into the consist.:teeth:
How can we forget the Conrail versions I'd buy one of these just for the fun of it: http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/elec/gg1/cr4800bicen1.jpg Link to some more of Conrail's inherited GG1's in all their stenciled glory: http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/elec/gg1/gg1.html Brian
Just didn't think the Conrail livery would be that popular, but the more I think about it, you are right! Also, New Jersey Transit had a few. Don't know how well that would go over, but if you are modeling the Corridor during that period and need Conrail and Amtrak versions, you would probably like a NJT one also. Look Kato...the G would be a winner!
My math didn't make sense Yikes... I need to put a bit more thought into my post. :embarrassed: There were at least 4 NCL trains... it would be a bit difficult to run them with only two FP7. So as you wrote, one less reason for Kato (or any other manufacturer) to pass-up on the NCL.
George wrote: "Yes I also would like heavyweight cars. However I'd like them from a mfr. that understands single car sales are important. Unfortunately heavyweight cars were even more individualized to each RR than the streamlined cars. " Actually, there was more standardization in Heavyweight cars than in Streamlined.... due to the standardization of the Pullman Company. During the streamline era the railroads could and did specify the arrangement of even the Sleepers for individual trains.... because after the war, when most streamlined cars were built, Pullman no longer had a monopoly and could not dictate to the railroads what they were going to get (Budd and ACF could and would build anything the customer was willing to pay for). Of course, your statement is mostly correct for non-Sleeper Heavyweights.... although you can find Parlor, Observation, Baggage and especially RPOs that were used by a number of railroads. Most railroads had their own idea of what "their" cars should look like (the Harriman SP, UP and IC cars, the PRR P70 style architecture, Burlington's ACF design ribbed roof and letterboard, the ATSF girder underframe). But the various configurations of Pullman Sleepers were used by all the railroads and you can find Plan types that were built by the 100s and were used from Coast to Coast. Look at the cars selected by Branchline (offered in accurate or very close to accurate carbodies for LOTS of roadnames and paint jobs) and Walthers (good car types but done in "popular" roadnames and paint with less concern about matching prototype). But you are dead-on with the observation that Heavyweight cars were used almost to the end of independent passenger service by most railroads more than most Model Railroaders realize. Even the Burlington, which is known for its Budd Stainless Steel Zephyr fleet, was using Heavyweights on most of its secondary trains... some of them modernized with roller bearings, thermopane windows and silver paint, but most virtually as-built in the teens and twenties... with some steel-sheathed wood cars of even older vintage. Charlie Vlk
NJT's GG-1's were inherited from CR in 1983. Thats when Transit took over the states passenger operations. That's rail & bus.
Spoke to Leon at Kato yesterday about an idea for the CZ set, then movedon to ask him about the next name train. Understandably, he wouldn't tell me. So I asked him: "I am thinking about putting together a custom set of El Capitan and Broadway Ltd trains. Lots of work and expensive. What do you think about that?" His response: "If it were me, I wouldn't do that right now." Read into it what you may.... I think thats good news...
I am a dyed in the wool Espee freek, with other western roads a close second. I love my CZ (with WP F-3s), but even I would buy a GG1 with a BL consist!
