Hi Everyone, My name is Ben and I recently started building a Z scale layout on my desk. Z scale seemed to be the best size to have as much track as possible on the smallest space possible. I'm using my office desk for the layout and intend to run it while working during the day. I bought on eBay, piece by piece, a Marklin starter pack, lot of tracks, locomotives and cars, over a few months now. I iterated a lot with the layout and I have now two "parallel" tracks and I can run two trains at the same time. Phase 1 https://imgur.com/gallery/FeNk2wr Phase 2 https://imgur.com/gallery/ipSauq1 Phase 3 https://imgur.com/gallery/EbKSMCS Here is my current track: So I'm using Marklin tracks and I'm not super happy with their reliability and quality. I bought quite a few track pieces and I can see the difference in quality or and use. They don't connect great together, or there are gaps between pieces. I played with a track software and redesign a layout with Rokuhan pieces (work in progress). Something like that: So here are my questions... - Are Rokuhan tracks good? - Do MTL locomotives work well on Rokuhan tracks? - Are the curves to tied? Will the trains still run? I still super new to all these. I'm sure there is a tone of information I'm not sharing to really answer these questions. Please be patient with me Thank you for any feedback, advices or recommendations you may have for me!
For starters, or those who do not want to ballast fidgety track, the Rokuhan or MTL roadbed track are good choices. The Marklin track was designed to be attached, either by nails or glue, after test fitting each piece and filing to fit if necessary. The Rokuhan and MTL track joints have special snap in clips that hold it in alignment so you don't need to glue it if you don't want. All locos will run on both MTL and Rokuhan track, with the rare exception of a distorted of otherwise malformed piece, or out of gauge loco. As for the curves,the wider the curve, the better, but beware of any curves tighter radius than what Marklin produces, or you might only be able to run special Rokuhan shorty cars and locos. They have insane tight track radius available that is really only suitable for their shorty line of equipment. Welcome to Z Scale, and enjoy. Try anything, see what works, don't repeat what fails, and most of all have great fun!
Wow - cool setup! While I agree Rokuhan is better, I shudder when I see people bought Marklin tracks "on eBay." You need to be concerned with condition as Marklin introduced their tracks back in 1972 ... so you can get some really old tracks that have a lot of contamination and poor running surface. It isn't timeless. If you bought used, be warned. If the track is new ... when working with Marklin, I always tell people that once connected, make sure you deform EACH JOINER at four points. So, for each track connection to another section, you manipulate and deform EIGHT points of the joiner down against the rails. See this image and note that my arrows are showing 2 joints to compress and the circles also showing 2... be sure to do the opposite sides that are hidden by this photograph. The joiner must be pressed down DEFORMED onto the rail: One more ... you might wish to feed at a couple of points to see if your Marklin track performs better. Looks good, though! Have fun.
Thank you both for the answers. This is super helpful. I'm using some double faced tape to keep the track on place. Because I still exploring with the layout, I'm trying not to use anything permanent for now. I'm not a super fan of the Tiny series, so I wan't to be careful not going too tie with the curves. Is there any documentation or test about that and how far we can go? My ultimate goal is to have the most optimized layout possible for the space, add a yard and some "industries". Is there any way to automated the circulation next? Have 2 trains mostly autonomous following pre-defined trips at specific time of the day? Again thanks both for all the tips and advices.
Ben, Welcome to the board and welcome to Z. I've looked a bit at the minimum radius issue. Just about everything will run on a 145mm radius and some of the shorter freight cars and a couple of locomotives will run down to 120mm. But the issue isn't so much so much mechanics as aesthetics. The real world runs with curves that are approximated by a 270mm radius. As the curves get tighter, the layout can look more like an amusement park ride. On my first layout I used 145mm curves and the long passenger cars would hang over the track and look silly. I would suggest nothing less than 195mm with 220mm preferred. As for autonomous programmed operation, it's probably sufficient at this time to say it is possible using DCC (digital command and control). Your CAD layout look pretty good. Be aware there a times when the software has round off problems and may leave you with 1-2mm gaps or misalignment that don't actually happen. Mark
The nominal radii for Märklin, Rokuhan and MTL is 220 and 195mm. Every locomotive will run on this. Märklin has made a *very* reliable business out of this since 1972 even with the 145mm, which was more for briefcase, portable, 'siding' (spur) for freight. There are many hundreds of short locomotives and freight cars (most are 2 axle) that will run on the 145mm. The MTL freight and many of the AZL rolling stock will also run on the 145mm, which are 4 axles (2 axle truck/bogie) because the cars (wagons) are still relatively short (40'/12m & 50'/15m). What if you changed the inner track to more of the 145mm radius and used some 195/220 pieces to transition to your outer main only at some locations? This way, the outer track runs continuous trains and the inner track can be used for switching
I'm building a Z layout myself meant for compact storage, made up of Rokuhan track pieces. I had some Marklin tracks to start with and they were clean running but the tiny snap connections we really easy to break off, so am opting for the Rokuhan/MTL style with the integrated roadbed and larger connector clips. I also like how the toggles to control the switches seem easy to use with their controller. No risk in holding down the switch too long and burning the coil. Outer loop will be R195 oval with a non-powered double crossover into an R170 oval. Then have an inside set of turnouts to R145 for train parking. Going to run my shorter 2-6-0 loco and 2-axle cars on the inner loop and my diesels and 4-axle cars on the outerloop. (I have tested the 4-axles on R170 with no issues but have yet to try them on R145.)
Hi Mark, Thanks for looking into that matter. I completely understand the concern and clearly noticed that most of what I see on youtube and the web is to be the most realistic possible. For the aesthetic, I'm trying to achieve something in between with everything I need for work on my desk and the layout. I can't go too realistic and add too much decor, at least for now. But I definitely don't want the RollerCoaster effect you are describing and will keep that in mind for sure.
Hi grymg, That's super helpful. Knowing that, I will revisit my Rokuhan layout and avoid going under R145 whatsoever and that should be safe. If you have any photos or videos of the results, I'll be happy to watch that!
Mark, are you sure of what you're writing ? If you consider AZL motive power, it's written on their boxes a recommended minimum radius of 195mm for their 6-axle units, and even 220mm for their articulated steamers... And I've serious doubts about the same builder's autoracks on such tight curves as what you say. Dom
The tight radius is in my opinion more for toy like z scale alike Rokuhan shorties. Big advantage in Z scale is that one can use wide radius in a relatively small space. /Frank Verstuurd vanaf mijn ANE-LX1 met Tapatalk
I read this on trainlots, take it with a grain of salt but you have a starting point for choosing your radius. Marklin offers several US locomotives including steam locomotives. They have made available 2-8-2, 4-6-2 and 4-6-0 steam locomotives which seem to do ok on a 145mm radius. Their F-7 diesel locomotives also do well on a smaller radius turns. Marklin has recently released E-8/9 units, not sure what the recommended radius is on them, but on larger locomotives, a larger radius makes for smoother operation and looks better. American Z Line, or AZL has really opened up the door to z scale railroading with very nice selection of locomotives. Steam offerings include the Mikado, a real workhorse for many prototype and model railroads alike. But their is also some real high end steam units available, including several versions of a Big Boy and a SP Cab forward, both in brass. Sold out and very hard to come by are the AZL GS-4 units and Challengers. While AZL recommends a 220mm radius on the Mikado, some report running them on 170mm. 195mm seems to be a realistic minimum. As for the bigger locomotives really need 245mm plus. AZL also offers a wide variety of diesel locomotives as well. Smaller GP38-2 locomotives can be had for under $100 and are billed as entry level locomotive. They really are a great value and can be upgraded to DCC and Micron Art offers a super detail kit if you want to dress them up a little. They do well on a 195mm radius and are available in variety of roads.
Hi everyone, Thanks a lot again for all the info and discussions. Over the weekend, I decided to redo some curves of the layout keeping the Marklin tracks for now. I'm sure a better track work will also improve the performances. I will run only 4 axels locomotives too. The results have been positive overall. For the outer track, most of the corners are Marklin 8520 (7-11/16" 195mm R, 45D). Only the loop uses three 8510 (5-3/4" 145mm, 45D). The inner track is mostly made of 8510 (5-3/4" 145mm, 45D). The loop is where I lose the most performances today. It limits the number max of cars I can attach to 1 locomotive (MTL GP35). I can probably attach 8 or 9 cars before it really stall in the middle of the loop. I will try with 2 locomotives soon and see if it helps. I also installed a DCC system this weekend. It really help with this area of the track and by programing the EMF, I can run the locomotive much lower without stalling badly. But I know it won't help with more cars. So far, sticking principally to 195mm, 45D and 145mm, 45D seem to work relatively well. The performances on the inner loop are actually good and I can run the loco at 10% power and maintain good operations. I don't believe the results will be the same with a 6 axles like the SD-40. I'll wait a bit before testing that out.
My Marklin F7 and 4-axle freight cars run just fine on the Rokuhan R145's and 55mm turnouts. The problem is just the scale of them navigating the tight turn doesn't look right. Don't mind the HO buildings!
