When these dont sell because of Walthers 'bait and switch' tactics, it will just give Walthers affirmation to continue their BS line that N Scale doesnt sell ! Another reason I dislike the 'preorder' way of doing bussiness. *sigh*
Apology accepted, and no hard feelings. Just FYI, cavalier forum phrases like "don't get your undies in a bunch" can come off as being as a bit condescending (implying, at least to me, that someone else's concerns/opinions are trivial). So, that's where I was coming from. But anyway, water under the bridge. You sound like a reasonable person after all -Mark
I understand the hard feelings towards Walthers. I'm not standing up for either one, just trying to look outside the box here... But from what I understand, Walthers is not the company which produces, in this case, the SW9/1200. Correct? I'm betting that they contract this with another company. If this is the case, could there be a possibility that there was a screw-up, some negligence or at the least some miss-communication between the producer and the distributor [Walthers] ? Maybe, just maybe Walthers had planned for the SW to be DCC ready, but the producer misunderstood or just plain outright said "Screw-it, we're not doing that yet" What I'm saying is, Why would you NOT want to update your product so that it will compete with the rest of the market offerings? In this age of CAD for instance, why would you still want to push the pencil and "T" square and think you will sell them? It just doesn't make since to me. Since Walthers made the statement that they WILL BE DCC ready, and then they changed their tune, to me it sounds like the finger should point to the producer, and Walthers was just trying to cover their own butt.
We heard a version of that tale from them on the GP38-2. It was supposed to be DCC ready also, but when they arrived the manufacturer made "changes" to the design. If that were the truth then, they would be really stupid to allow it to happen again. I am still amazed at the price increase. Not only on the SW9, but the GP20 and GP60 as well.
I don't know, bendy. When the box goes out with your name on it, it's your product. After all, does Walthers manufacture anything itself? Like most large model railroad suppliers, I imagine its primary role is to work with contractors who actually make the products. And there are ways to protect yourself from a non-complying contractor. I have a difficult time believing Walthers got played the way you laid out. And if that actually was the case, what would be wrong with Walthers coming out and saying, "Listen everybody, we got screwed. We're sorry, but we have a behind-the-times product on our hands. Yes, we need to sell these things and recover as much of our investment as possible. But we'll never work with so-and-so again, and we promise to do the utmost to do better in the future." I could respect that. Instead, we got bait-and-switch and silence. And price increases. And dealers caught in the middle of a price squeeze. This was an ugly turn of events, poorly handled by Walthers. That's all. I'm not saying they're a bunch of baby-killers. They just mucked this one up royally. And I don't think anyone here needs to apologize for Walthers when they won't even apologize for themselves. Some consumers (not all, I'm sure) got burned here. They (and by "they" I mean "me") have a right to be ticked. Jim
Understood Like I said, I'm not taking any sides. Just playing the Devils Advocate and casting lines. One would think that if happened before, you would think the distributor would say "Hey! Wait a minute, We're not standing for this again ! It will be right or we're not excepting it!" Either way it's sad.
FWIW, I have heard that it's sometimes the case of the Asian tail wagging the American dog with at least some of these situations. I know (or at least have it on good authority) that the folks over at Model Power have been begging Ajin to make improvements to their semi-primitive line of N scale steamers, only to be given the cold shoulder. I guess it should come as no surprise that there are usually several sides to these stories. -Mark
Could very well be, Mark. And it wouldn't surprise me at all. But you would think the importer has the biggest stick of all ... money. As in, "I ain't spendin' another penny with you, Ajin, until you show me something new." After all, what's Ajin gonna do with its tooling? It's going to be chasing diminishing returns shopping outdated product to someone else. I know, I'm in over my head here. Just guessin' out loud. I'll shut up now. Jim
True enough, but then again, how many new runs of Model Power steamers have there been lately? I can't think of too many, and looking at BLW's website they're pretty much sold out across the board. So maybe the two companies are actually engaged in some sort of Mexican stand-off. Of course, I'm just guessing too. My knowledge of the business side of model trains barely registers. -Mark
The assumption here is that Ajin wouldn't have anything else to do. I think the fact that all of model railroading is a rounding error in the enormous total of overseas manufacturing is one of the key data points. Advantage: Manufacturer. "We'll make it when we get to it, if we get to it."
I don't know about that. From a quick glance at the internetz, it appears Ajin was created in 1978 for the specific purpose of working in the model railroad market. The company changed its name a while back to Ajin Model Train. Now, maybe they are a very tiny offshoot of a larger company, but it appears model railroading is more than a rounding error in terms of Ajin's bottom line. That's what I gather from a few minutes of checking around, anyway. I could be completely wrong. But I'm guessing there are several manufacturers whose primary business is model railroading. I doubt if there are a lot of places that make, say, washing machines ... and crank out a few N scale engines on the side. Now, production capacity may be a big issue. But to me that gets back to the big stick ... money. If importers stop buying outdated crap, manufacturers are going to have little choice but to step up their game. Again, I'm way out on a limb here. If someone knows better, I'll be glad to stand corrected. Jim
If a companies name is on the box, THEY are responsible. Case closed! For instance, A Scion FRS is made by Subaru. If you owned a FRS and you have a problem with the car do you take it to the Scion dealer or the Subaru dealer because Subaru made it? You take it to the Scion dealer because that who's name is on the product. I doubt in my opinion that this was a change that Walthers decided to make. They made a change in the product NOT to update it, but yet kept the pricing the same as a competitors product (Kato NW2), that is far superior BTW, and think that we will not notice and they (Walthers) would be pocketing the $$$$. It all boils down to one word. GREED!!!! They decided to make a change in production to keep the cost down and NOT adjust their MSRP to accomodate this. Now had Walthers decided to make the change they did and at the time lowered their MSRP somewhere around $40, then I could see it. As it stands, Walthers aint getting a dime of my $$$$. Ryan
I got mine today. Runs very well for the couple of laps I took it around the layout and pulled a 9 car heavyweight train just fine and pushed as well. Bell is painted gray and I am assuming it was brass in real life so that is a little cheesie. I need to get out my NW2 and do a side by side. I am much happier with it out of the box than I am with the GP20.
I did a side by side with an old one. I couldn't tell any difference in performance, but then I've never had any problems with the plastic worms either. -Mark
No I do not. They came out just as I went into a hiatus, plus I was not happy with other Life Like engines that I had sold off. I got this one because it was the Q and I wanted to support Walthers efforts. I haven't decided how that plan has worked yet. 0-8-0 cancelled GP-20 not so impressed with SW1200 pending DL109 neat proto, not to sure yet.............
If Walthers supports parts in the usual fashion, you won't be able to buy the worms seperately. I buy the Kato U30C worms and remove them from the shaft with a puller. I have used the Atlas worms as well (about 0.005" less radius/engagement).
Well, mine arrived today, and in all fairness I have to admit that despite this engine's DCC unfriendliness, it's a darn sweet little runner. Great slow-speed creep, practically impossible to stall it out. I had an 11-car train ready to roll (almost all MTs, stock weights and wheels) and it snuck away with that train without any apparent difficulty. The decoder issue still irks, though. I can't help but think I would probably be saying the same nice things about the performance of a new NW2 ... and I would have an easy path to DCC. For the same money as the SW9. As it stands, the SW9 doesn't compare all that favorably to the Bachmann 70-tonner I picked up recently. That cost me $46.15 and was DCC equipped (and runs great). The SW9 cost me $76.48. Plus I'll probably have to shell out an additional $50-$60 to buy a decoder and pay someone to install it for me. Sorry to beat a dead horse, but as nice as this engine runs, I only ordered it because it was supposed to be DCC ready. On that account, total fail. Of course, if you run DC only or enjoy playing with the guts of your engines, you won't care about that. Jim
Mine arrived yesterday as well. I converted one to DCC already using a Lenz silver mini decoder, which fits where the lightboard used to be. With some judicious sanding, you can mill down a 3mm LED on two sides to "flatten" it and it will fit over the Lenz to retain the headlight (or you can use a 603 surface-mount). Not nearly as convenient as a drop-in, but not a nightmare, either. The whole install took me 30 minutes. I'll try to take photos of the next one I do. As for running, these run smoother than my Kato NW2's. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. They pull better, too - one engine will take a 15-car cut in my yard with no apparent slipping. The Kato is limited to 10 for a single unit (my cars are weighted to NMRA standards; your mileage my vary). In fact, I'd rank my switchers as follows: 1. VO1000 (very smooth, pulls well, easy DCC install with TCS drop-in). 2. New Walthers SW (very smooth, pulls as well as the VO despite smaller size; DCC install a mid-level pain). 3. Arnold S2's (my S2's are smoother-running than the Kato NW's I have and they pull better. DCC conversion is not for the faint of heart, though). 4. Kato NW (almost as smooth as the S2's, but not quite; pull the worst of the lot. Easy DCC conversion, though, with TCS or Digitrax drop-in). I was surprised that I'd rank my ancient Arnold S2's (with lo-profile wheelsets from NWSL) ahead of the Kato's - just barely, mind you, because of the pulling power resulting from the metal shell/chassis design which makes them weigh relatively heavy for their size. But there's little question that for switching duties in my yard or elsewhere, I'd grab either the new Walthers or the Atlas VO as my first choice. John C.
