And even then the tender shell didn't fit back on with a decoder plugged in, you had to cut the plug off and hard wire it. That's not anywhere close to as big a chore as installing a decoder in something like the SW. The only locomotives where the only choice is buying factory DCC equipped is Bachmann and I've never found one that didn't run on DC. I don't think Walthers has any excuse whatsoever for not making the SW DCC friendly, there are European diesel switchers half the size that come with a six pin NEM plug like Atlas is using with the Alco switcher. Walthers themselves went to the trouble of new DCC ready mechanisms for the GP20 and GP60 and then just did a couple of small limited runs of each so the argument that they might have thought the SW wasn't going to sell doesn't wash with me.
Mark, quoting you from the Atlas Forum " Posted - 2011 February 22 : 5:54:01 PM I got a reply back from Randy at Walthers. Sounds like it's going to be a new design - "The internals will be different than in the older SW9/1200's. The motor will be electrically isolated from the frame and the circuit board will be a clip fit board." -Mark" http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=64643
Yes that is what I was talking about. I hear the decoder adds nothing to the total cost of the loco, but if you look at the 4-6-0 parts list at Bachmann you will see the decoder is the most expensive part of the whole locomotive. There is no way I didn't pay more for something that I threw in the trash. But I'm not just talking about DCC factory equipped locos, I'm talking about DCC ready locos. Like the Walther's 0-8-0 with a bunch of wires running to the tender when I only need 2. Or the newer Bachmann locos with the same bunch of wires. Why do they even bother to use the electrical drawbar any more? And then there was the Concor 2-10-2 that was wired for ease of decoder installation. It needed to be re-wired just to get it running on DC. Sure it would run, but the path electricity took to get from the rails to the motor made it run like crap. All because they isolated the motor. I have nothing against people using DCC. I have something against DCC making it hard for me to buy and enjoy trains. I don't know much about DCC, but it would be very easy for me to add a decoder to a LL SW. It is a pretty simple locomotive mechanically.
BTW Mark, please don't take my post above as a jab. It is just a trip down memory lane to remind everyone that Walthers did indeed promise a a clip fit circuit board and called it DCC friendly. Funny how they change the meaning of the term later.
That was almost two years ago! Shows how much can change in even the development of "upgrading" a product. On a side note: My first addition of a member here on my Ignore List happened tonight.....ah TB.
Yes, almost two years ago and the information released by Walthers never changed until the release was imminent. Even then they did not tell people what the changes really were and were not. Thankfully we have people like Mark and Tony Hines that provide the answers that Walthers did not. Why do you think people are aggravated today?
56.4% of all statistics are made up on the fly As for this being DCC "friendly" vs "ready," not too thrilled with that, as I remember the post from 2+ years ago about how Walther's was going to redo the mechs to allow them to be DCC ready.
Jeezo beezo, nice find. I'd completely forgotten about that. And now I'm really upset - they totally lied to me! -Mark
No offense taken. Although it's a little scary that I completely forgot that I actually did contact Walthers about these things back before I ordered them. Holy Alzheimers! -Mark
I can relate to that one. I could have sworn that I had seen it advertised somewhere as DCC ready, but maybe I just picked that up from forums and people that had communicated with Walthers. Either way, thanks for your reviews and taking the hit for us. You are right that they are good engines, and by replacing the worm and wheels they got even better. I just wish they would be more informative when they change their plans. It kinda reminds me of the ConCor drivel about the MP15 release.
Oh, it changed. They just never told anyone. Just like a lot of manufacturers. I don't get the aggravation. If you don't like the product. Don't buy. It's not worth getting undies in a bunch.
Obviously you don't, and I won't. My undies are just fine, and I hope yours are too. We all have different views of this, and you are entitled to yours. In keeping with your mantra, if you don't like this thread.......Anyway, when you receive your SW9 and have it converted to DCC, I for one would like to see it posted.
Y'know, I really don't appreciate the condescending attitude. The aggravation is that the product is not as they stated it was going to be when they took my order. The additional aggravation is now I have to mail it back for a refund. It's not the end of the world, but it is a bit annoying. -Mark
This loco was most definitely first marketed as "DCC ready." That's when I placed my order. A month or two later it was downgraded to "DCC friendly." Which it isn't. And mcjaco, how long have you worked for Walthers? Jim
Not totally true. If you use the thicker style connector, you are correct, but if you use the thinner style it fits no problem.
THIS is my objection. If they had told us back then "hey, it's going to be the same mechanism, just so you know" I wouldn't have had the negative reaction I now have. Having been burned on the GP38-2, I decided to wait and not pre-order one and now I am glad that I didn't. It's not because I can't hard-wire a decoder, or because I hate America, or whatever other reason someone may try to attach to my objection. It is because the thing was originally billed as something that it is now clearly not, and Walthers tried to sweep all that under the rug probably when they realized it wasn't going to pencil out for them.
Besides the vague announcement regarding DCC capabilities, I sense there is a general frustration that a major N scale mfg just isn't keeping up with the times. While I know some prefer "modeling" be left in model railroading, fitting DCC decoders in locos has become so plug and play (just like most of the rest of the electronic world) that it is dissapointing that they cannot convert. I know they are trying to max out some decent old tooling, but I believe Kato retooled their frames a bit ten years back to fit DCC decoders easier, no? Again, while I hate to bash Walthers, their locos are just a day late and a dollar short. They can do what they want, and many can buy it, fiddle with it, etc. if they want an SW9 or SW 1200, but most would prefer not to. Simple as that!
That is the same reason I cancelled my order for the IM F-3s in NP butterknife. The prototype photos in N Scale magazine showed them with the winterization hatch on the model. When it came out it was not on the model nor was it even included. I know, its just a minor item, but have you tried finding a winterization hatch for a F unit since JnJ and Sunrise went out of business? I am in total agreeance with Adam. If a mfg advertises something and/or shows pre sample photos of what it is supposed to be like when come time for manufacturing, they need to STICK TO IT! PERIOD!
Ah the written word. It can be taken so many ways. No condesention in my reply. I apologize if it was taken that way. How many manufacturers tell us one thing, and by the time the product rolls around, it's totally different. I'm not saying Walthers is off the hook on this, but so many others do the same. I'm with you on the annoyance. And you, like one other here, seem to just pick at me. I get it, I can be grating with my "hey look at the other side of the coin" positions at times. I do not, have not, or will ever work for Walthers. Unfortunately, I work in a field way different than MR manufacturing. I'm betting many of you fall into that category. So to nitpick on something we don't have much knowledge, or understanding of the inner workings of, is kind of a waste of our time. I do, however, know someone close to the product development within Walthers, so I know some info from the otherside. They don't go out of their way to irritate N scalers. I'll agree on these points, and never said anyone should not be. There's just a lot of wheels turning on the other side we don't understand, and probably never will. So at the end of the (AAHHH, corporate nerd speak!), buy what you want. If this doesn't fit the bill, move on.
