Was a fair turnout last week for the MoDOC and MODOT discussion forum in Owensville. The Dept. of State Parks was there too as to the Beaufort to Windsor trail on the Rock. Seems there were a number of miscreants as myself with pertinent questions, primarily Money and how this would be funded, expectations of revenues changes and how much impact Off of the KATY and other current trails. Thoughts on the collapsed tunnel number 5? and what of lost revenue to business that would start and not be utilized well enough to stay open. Dept. of Parks noted they have ZERO money to do this at present, they can barely keep up on the KATY, thinking was they MAYBE MIGHT COULD offer maintenance and upkeep to Great Rivers Greenway Trails Co. on BOTH. That went over like a Lead Balloon. DOC wants little to do with this other than restricting sides access so people do not trash or poop in rough ground with sensitive wildlife nearby. MoDOT was talking of interconnects along Hwys. 19 and 47 for connecting KATY to the Rock for bikers, MORE expenses. Then questions arose on the trestle bridge fire, was any serious damage, to which they excused themselves. A fella that lives by the old Gasconade bridge said appeared the ties and base timbers bolted to the metal structure took the hit, only minor fire contact to steel. Said he walked it a few weeks later, still relatively solid on the wood just charred heavily. MoDOT also stated was thinking MAY or MIGHT get the Okie Dokie to try to entice a shuttle service to re-track the roadbed at least to Belle or maybe Eldon for Commuter line and for some minor freight runs(MFA is interested as will likely shut down two feed mills and a fertilizer operation due to the loss of rail service) MFA cited expenses for trucking per ton materials hauled in and out as a potential to realign to rail service.
Was on Facebook(nicknamed Face Plant) on this last couple days, arguing with the bicyclists who are extoling the virtues of the New Trail. They cannot come up with the same study figures twice or moneys costs or validity of use where when asked pertinent questions as to where they ride now they disappear as whack a moles. Got a fella from Diamond Pet Foods to write there as I was, that company would Dearly LOVE to have rail back, trucks cannot get in nor out easily from META MO where have been numerous accidents, lost loads, damaged loads and the haulers able to move less than 2/3 what rail used to. MFA at Meta also would love rail back as they were getting two to three rail cars per week of fertilizers/amendments materials and had grain going out during the entire year where trucks are barely managing 1/2 needed. Feedmill at Gerald is ALWAYS in a bind for material, grain or Midds from the elevators, trucks take all together too long to get there and line up for offloads slowing the process drastically. They too would rather see the line restored to limited service freight and commuter as would benefit ALL in the counties along the route not just Cyclists or hikers. We are trying to get others to write the legislature reps to see if can push this.
I was involved (lived fifty feet from it) with one trail, and have lived very close by two others. One of the latter two is currently being extended through a tiny downtown "business district". They think it will "revitalize" that little core. How? No answer other than pretty drawings of the proposed route, with trees and shrubs. It already has too many under patronized restaurants, bars, etc. There just are not enough people to make it fly as they dream it. NONE have ever developed the amount useage, had the impact economically, as delusionalized by supporters. All have caused traffic and parking problems- their own lots and misuse of nearby businesses. Most of the visitors to businesses wanting a drink of water, wanting to use a bathroom, wanting to use a phone. Not to mention some littering, and rude jerks failing to keep pets leashed... The only trails I have ever seen get utilized as daydreamed have been in very heavily populated (urban) centers.
Good posts here. The same fantasy exists in western NC where the trail lobby wants to tear out an existing 19 Mile branchline from Hendersonville to Pisgah Forest that's been inactive since a paper mill closed on the line. To their credit NS kept the track intact and new owner Blue Ridge Southern has kept it as well. Adjacent property owners want to keep the rails in place too, having no want of strangers wandering close to their homes and land. There are already many hundreds of miles of hiking and biking trails in western NC. Yet here and elsewhere, the trail lobby shows no gratitude and thirsts only for more track to tear out.
Great Rivers Greenway opened up some years back taking as many rights of way as could get painting LOGO on the old Bridges and Trestles, they did pave a few in the Downtown area of St. Louis but screamed to high heaven as rains slurried a few into mires and they had not the funds to re-rock and grade others, DEMANDED the State Parks Department take care of that. Did NOT happen, did receive a few donations but nothing of merit until a wealthy donor came forth. Still have yet to see more than a few to a dozen users on ANY of them. Contrary to popular myth, the advent of B&Bs in our area did more to aid Tourism and revenues than the KATY trail, travelers from out state, visitors from local major cities make the trips on Motorcycles or in Cars even in Buses to partake of the Wineries restaurants and the small town ambience. Largest issue for the Trails users is convenience stops. KATY has basic Outhouse restrooms at 20 mile intervals so Hikers and a few bikers have been caught doing the Nasty Business in the side ditches, weeds and into Private Property to which they receive trivial fines as the Police try to NOT run them off seeing them as revenue.
Well the Rock Trail is dying slowly, little interest in outside funds to fund rehab into a walking trail, pressure on MO DNR and State Parks has delivered them nothing as the money just is NOT there to rehab the multitude of Steel Bridges, setting up walkways on the Longest Structure Bridges in the state and doing so to preclude 'Jumpers'(Gasconade Bridge fire destroyed some of the base ties so that will cost most). Cost of rock to relay a trail quality roadbed and establishing Mowing/debris/tree clearing and the rest room facilities outside of towns. The estimate from MO St Parks is close to 3/4 million JUST to open the length of trail the minimal levels as requested by the Rock Trail proponents(BTW They offered ZERO support funds). State of MO is open to outside rail services should they wish to Reopen the Line to consult on financial guarantees and loans expedience should a Short line decide to pick the line back up for Grain and Small Industrial services. Owensville Industrial Park stated would be open to added sidings there as has Gerald and Meta MO to MFA Services.
I really do hope that some of the old Rock Island right of way across Missouri sees rails and trains again. I find it sad, and kind of astonishing, that after the 1980 shutdown that no other rail carrier picked that particular route up for use. I may be mistaken here, but didn't the Southern Pacific acquire some or all of the line across Missouri, but they chose not to operate it? Are there any cases of rails to trails and back to rails? I am neither a proponent nor an opponent of hiking/bicycling trails on old railroad right of way, though I do think those who push for these trails can overestimate the benefits, and even push for track removal when another viable alternative may some day present itself. Just my $0.02...
I have lived adjacent to three different trail developments. Participated in some fashion, in two. One was right across the street. The loud noises of economic benefits are just that, loud noises. The facts are that only in urban areas is there enough use to even begin defraying costs to develop, build and maintain, with any real business patronage. I have chased people and pets out of my yard- who were using my yard as a bathroom. A couple of them who wanted to fight about it! Pets which were supposed to be on leash. Folks get out to suburbia and beyond, believe they have a right to ignore leash laws. (There were incidents of attacks and bites of other users.) I have enjoyed (NOT!) people knocking on my door, (at all hours), wanting to use my bathroom, use my phone, a drink of water, to park their car on my property. (Or who just parked anyhow!) I have seen numerous businesses disrupted by the same non-customers. And then there is, regardless of where, some level of littering.... Several years ago, when I was back home, I stopped at a favorite place. It is now a (rails to trails) trailhead. People were parking everywhere, many partially blocking the road. Unloading in front of other vehicles trying to pass through. Wandering around as if they were the only human life. I could not believe the ignorance I was seeing and enduring. I'll never be back to a place where such stupidity is normal, tolerated.
All I can say is WOW, BoxcabE50! I am sorry to hear of your bad experiences with jerks, (insert your own stronger language in your head here), and ignorant folk who don't respect their surroundings and the other people who own property in the area. I have walked and ridden a bicycle on several trails converted from rail lines, and have happily not had a bad experience. That being said, I have never lived adjacent to a trail, so that mileage may vary. One thing you mention, regarding economic viability of said trails, is that only in urban areas can they recoup costs and be viable. I tend to agree. One downside I will note, from my own local perspective, is that there is one trail here that I think is underutilized, and I have heard can be downright dangerous (perception, perhaps?). It is in an urban area here, and passes through a pretty rough neighborhood in parts. THAT trail I have never been on, nor would I. The trails I have ridden or walked have mostly been outside of towns, or in more rural areas. The scenery can be quite beautiful, and it gives you a view of the countryside that you would never see on a drive. For that I am grateful. Sadly, though, as you mention, people with no class can ruin the experience.
My previous employer, AMEREN, took over the line to preserve the rails into Labadie Power Station and service rails into other remote Peaking station locations along the MO River. Also keeps a siding open to two inner city sites for Transformer and utility pole storage yards as well service facilities. The Company only released the line from Beaufort to Clinton or Windsor(cannot remember which) where KC, Jackson , Cass or Johnson County had already appropriated a section removed a low bridge just outside KC and built their own section of trail. Seems are STILL a number of people angry over that where that section of trail is underutilized and was expensive to establish where the bridge was a low clearance problem the County could have done other manipulations to change. The Company allowed that takeover due to the abandonment and due to Taum Sauk Reservoir damages repayments. There have been ZERO financial aspects confirmed as applied to that length of trail, what they are trying to do is connect the KATY at Clinton into the Rock and expand ridership areas. That would be fine if the remote regions actually saw much more than minimal usership. The State Parks Commissioner did note that as to unrecoverable expenses for the bridge restructuring on the Gasconade and Osage River sections. Are three old tunnels in various levels of decay that are an inherent danger to pedestrians, they would either have to be bypassed or remediated and those costs as estimated either way are excessive. Are also several Highway crossing points, one of which is US 50 east of Gerald MO, to which either pedestrian walkway OVER the roadway or a secondary path developed under to eliminate chance hits of high speed traffic and pedestrian, other sites are along BUSY state and county highways where limited sight distance precludes pedestrian crossings and would need be addressed, not cheaply either. A final consideration was as to Dilution, how many that currently use the KATY would move to the Rock and the current if any monetary support on the KATY would diminish rapidly.
I have to think the need or necessity of some structured freight rail in that corridor would be a more efficient use of money, gain revenues from the products being served as hauled, possibly draw other business back in to feed tax bases which a Trail can only accomplish in the least levels.
Spoke to a fellow retiree that was in management at AMEREN last evening, seems there was a method to the madness as to the Stop at Beaufort. The Crossing I noted between Leslie and Gerald on US 50 would have to have been upgraded to Guard Swing Arms and a full crossing coverage block for live rail use. As there are no business in Leslie they stopped the line at the last signaled crossing at Beaufort. Otherwise would have continued to support business as Bull Moose Tube and MFA in Gerald, essentially crippling the town for future industrial business.
