Hi! New to these boards. I am returning to model railroading after about a 20 year break for college, marriage, kids... The highlights of my railroad interest are as follows 1) Unique lashups and consists (such as could be seen on Alpha Jets or in Feather River Canyon shortly after BN merger) 2) Modern trains and locomotives 3) Busy Mainline or traffic funnels 4) Modeling what I can't railfan 5) Most of my favorite railroads, routes, and paint schemes are fallen flags (MILW, CRIP, SAL, IC, DRGW, WP, B&M, EL, D&H) 6) Realistic operations but with emphasis on being able to sit and railfan my layout 7) N scale 8) A healthy disinterest in the modern class 1's and their get rid of every route even if profitable that doesn't produce a certain operating ratio 9) Engineering new routes with geospatial/engineering software 10) Scenic scenes and long runs vs lots of yards What I believe I would like to do is to create a freelance prototype modern collection of regional or small class 1's (5-10 nationally as a collection of modern fallen flags or freelance prototype railroads) built from abandoned or underused routes that work together as a group to compete with the big class ones for long haul shipping using modern Alpha Jets with pooled consists and model an interesting section of this network. This could be unit trains, long haul manifest or intermodal. Ex: Powder River coal train to southern plains or southeast partner railroad or Boston to Seattle fast intermodal. I think best to start by building my map and story first so that I would have an idea of traffic patterns. I feel I would like to use the following rules for my story: 1) Stay away from fallen flags that were merged and form integral pieces of modern class ones (no L&N, Santa Fe, ACL, NYC Water Level Route or Penn mainline, GN, MP, CB&Q, N&W, Southern, SP Sunset, C&O etc..) The exceptions would be like a RI Spine Line or MILW Chicago-St Paul mainline. 2) Have a very different ICC that would have protected competition and not allowed mergers that in the end resulted in reducing competing routes and effectively ending one of the routes (ex: IC & GMO, ACL & SAL, GN & NP, Central Pacific & WP, DRGW and UP Overland, Cotton Belt & MP routes Tex-Thebes Bridge). This could include mergers that happened just that the ICC would have put provisions (like UP could buy SP just not be allowed to own both WP and central pacific) or BN to merge but sell off NP main (which they mostly gave up west of eastern Montana) 3) Probably focus on some newer Fallen Flags that would have some locomotives or cars that could be used to reduce amount of locomotives and rolling stock to have to paint (SD38-2's, SD40-2's, SD-45's, SD-50's for locals and switching). 4) Bring back any abandoned routes if of value or routes that class 1's could be selling 5) Be given trackage rights or routes as concessions for large mergers (DRGW acquiring MP KC-Denver route and as part UP-MP merger, WP gets SP coast line as result of UP-SP merger). Hopefully these would be less used or abandoned routes today. In my opinion most railroads/routes ceased to exist because of either bad engineering or bad management. As part of story I would like to collect a unique collection of underrated railroad engineers or leaders to weave into the story to improve railroads/routes. This could include engineers like Col Page of the Virginian or George J. Ray of the Lackawanna Cutoff and Nicholson Cutoff or railroad presidents such as Will White of the D&H. I believe my story would start for engineering purposes around 1900 but for merger and the real beginning of the story would be in the mid 60's to 70's. Any suggestions of fallen flags or abandoned/new routes or constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated. I plan to update with maps to include grade profiles in KML as I work through the story, finalized the story and then begin track planning. I have a 29x13 room for my railroad but would probably start small and modular. My board name Aspen Meridian is a name for a freelance prototype north-south transcon (the IC of the Rockies) that would connect Calgary-Edmonton to Denver/SLC and Phnx/Albq and maybe to Gulf or Mexican port. I may or not include it in the layout/story.
Van Swearingen--C&O and NKP Erie Lackawanna ACL GM&O M-K-T Rock Island T&P would help Rio Grande and WP A little GN trackage rights will get you to the Milwaukee You're bad. You're contiguous. You're nationwide. You're also really weird, in that you actually serve both sides of the Mississippi. Only the Frisco ever got away with that sacrilege.
And the IC, thinking of their lines west from Chicago to Omaha and from Jackson to Shreveport. Those are great suggestions by the way and a tough list to assemble. CGW maybe, merged into C&NW but mainline west from Chicago later removed.
Yes, and the GM&O. But they were already odd in running north-south and offering little east-west. So, you know, they were already weird.
Looking at the following maps will give you a good sense of where the existing lines ran back in the late 1940s. You could link the pieces together or propose that a parallel system was created. For example, starting at the MT-AB border, GN through Shelby, Great Falls, to west of Billings. Then CB&Q into WY, through Casper to Cheyenne. UP west to SLC is an option. Or, CB&Q or UP from Cheyenne to Denver and D&RGW west to SLC. From Denver to Albuquerque via the C&S to Trinidad and ATSF. Albuquerque to Phoenix could be all ATSF via Flagstaff, or ATSF to SP via Tucson. http://trains.rockycrater.org/graphics/pfmsig/atlas48/mt-1948.jpg http://trains.rockycrater.org/graphics/pfmsig/atlas48/wy-1948.jpg http://trains.rockycrater.org/graphics/pfmsig/atlas48/co-1948.jpg http://trains.rockycrater.org/graphics/pfmsig/atlas48/ut-1948.jpg http://trains.rockycrater.org/graphics/pfmsig/atlas48/az-nm-1948.jpg
CMStP&P? Chicago and Northwestern (especially after the acquisition of the Omaha Road)? Crabgrass and Weeds (CGW)?
If you're going to be that way about it, the Santa Fe and every other railroad that went west from Chicago. But the fact remains, if you draw a line from Chicago to St. Louis and down the Big Muddy from there, you mostly have one set of roads on one side and another set on the other.
Thanks. I have a already found a 1% route between Albq and Phx using high resolution slope models and ESRI cost distance and path tools that shaves off about 100 miles over the ATSF route between the two cities. I pass about 100 feet higher over the continental divide but I like the route once I clean it up and remove some curves.
Thanks for your response. Yes I serve both sides of the river...but since this is an alphabet route all/most of the railroads are owned separately so no one railroad really operates on both sides. Alphabet routes are really mostly a marketing scheme with some shared operations. Crews would work for the railroad who owns the tracks.
I guess it depends on where you're standing and where you grew up, as to what you think of when you hear certain phrases. When I heard Alphabet Route, the first thing I thought of was the NKP, W&LE, P&WV, WM, RDG, CNJ and L&HR. So my first thought was, why not model the modern day W&LE with there D&RGW inspired paint scheme. A neat what-if could be, the NKP, P&WV and Wabash were never absorbed into the N&W and the WM never became part of the Chessie System, leaving the NKP, P&WV, Wabash and WM to all merge together and create a new road serving the existing Alphabet route. I never knew there were mid western and western roads that were also called Alphabet routes, very interesting.
You are correct. There never was an Alphabet route outside the northeast version. I am just taking the "concept" to connect abandoned and underutilized routes/roads and put them together into a group in the modern era to compete against the long haul class one's of today while maintaining their individual uniqueness and identities. I am just expanding the concept past the northeast.
I didn't either. Neat. My first introduction to the Alphabet Route you describe was early in my transportation career when I was looking through my employer's old railcar routing forms and saw the complex assemblage of roads you described. I asked my boss about it and he explained how we once used the route (or portions thereof) to expedite our cars. At the time of my question, CR was getting its legs with improved service and we were revising routings to take advantage. Before the Staggers Act brought deregulation to the industry, rates were most often the same regardless of route. To attract business, all the railroads could sell was service and good supply of clean cars for loading. Well, that and maybe a hunting trip, a nice lunch or a box of cigars. <g>
Right, that was the Alphabet Route consortium. And it makes more sense than my C&O suggestion. It's hard not to think of the Chessie as subordinate to the NYC and the PRR, but in fact it is the dominant partner in CSX. The RF&P would be a good addition to that.
Hi Amanda, It could always be a corporate merger much like what happened early on with the NS. Even though in 1982 the N&W and Southern became the NS on paper, they were both still run as separate railroads until Dec. 31, 1990. You could come up with a catchy corporate name like "Eastrail" but all the members still maintain their individual identities much like Allen McClelland and Tony Koester did with their original Appalachian lines concept.
I could imagine a combined effort between some of the smaller roads in Pennsylvania. Anthracite roads + Wild Mary, maybe WLE...
My personal choice is for the Pittsburgh area. You get the Allegheny Valley Railroad, Buffalo and Pittsburgh, along with CSX, NS, and Amtrak. The AVR has a few GP11's (GP9 rebuilds) and SD40's, so you can have fun custom painting, and have a roster of diesels from the 50's to today. If you feel like modeling transit, there's a "T", too.
