I'm planning a model layout based on the Milwaukee's Pacific Extension during the last years of the Milwaukee's existance. I'm trying to capture the line through South Dakota and Minnesota and would appreciate any help on the trains run over that line. I know about the Wisconsin Edison coal trains jointly operated with the Burlington Northern. I'd like information on traffic before and after the discontinuance of service west of Miles City. Thanks for any help you could provide.
Brian, Take a look around the web and I will do the same. Oh FYI the Milwaukee also had Trackage rights on the BN (GN as well) from Seattle to Bellingham WA then had their own line from Bellingham through Whatcom County to a couple of mines. I live in Bellingham WA so if you want any info on this little known Milw. line, please E-maiil me at BN9900@hotmail.com. They ran U33Cs on this line and the BN still operates portions of the line today. If you would like any more info, please let me know. Happy Hunting.
BN9900....were those coal mines? And if so, were they strip mines or underground? Also do you know who operated them? Amax, Consol etc. Many thanks, Bill
BN9900 mentioned MILW RD ran U33C's and other big GE's up north to Bellinghham. A interesting story is to get there they ran on a lot of BN trackage, including the ex NP main to Cananda from Renton. A lot of this line was 4 axle only but for somereason the Milwaukee was running there big 6 axel GE's on it. No one really noticed this until a New guy working on the line asked how could the MILW RD run there big engines on it but BN could only run there GP's on it. It turned out no one had noticed or said anything to the MILW RD about it and they never did after that either. But BN does run 6 axels on it ocasionaly nowdays. Kevin
These mines out here were lime stone, not coal. As far as the MLW running on NP I will have to look into that but I just know they ran on the GN from Seattle to Bellingham, then to their own line the Bellingham Bay and British Columbia (BB&BC) They bought that line in the early 1900s. I have studied topo maps of the area and I have noticed that they never interchanged with the CP dirctly but must have had the BN do the switching for them at Sumas Washington. Sorry it took so long to get back in here, haven't had the time as of late. To much work!!
I don't know if the MILW ran on the NP during the NP day's but after the merger they ran on at least the portion from Renton through woodenville, I know that for sure. Kevin
The MILW also carfloated stuff into Bellingham at one point, and portions of the dock assembly are still in exstance on Bellingham Bay. The foundation for the roundhouse was in place until last year when someone got a bug in their posterior and tore it out. You can still follow the tracks through the streets of town. And now for somthing completly different. I know the MILW had trackage rights over the NP and SP&S into Portland, but what I'm trying to figure out is 1, what sort of traffic they ran over that line, 2, what sort of power was used, and 3, did they run any passenger trains over the line. I'm modelling the SP&S in 68 and 69 and want to run my MILW stuff if I can convince myself it's right.
Wabash-one, There was a coal field as well. my uncle and I did a lot of research in the area and found a coal mine. Strip I believe, it wasn't pit. The Milw line in Bellingham started at the car float area like CTHippo mentioned and continues north to the Bellingham terminal area. They served the docks there and then swings northeast through the county passing the coal mines just a mile or two out of the dock area. As it continues northeast, it goes by and served, Bellingham Cold Storage Plant #2 up the line it served a few minor industries before reaching Sumas where it interchanged with the NP. It swings nack south to Limestone quarries in the Glacier area... There is one branch that left the NE route to head SE into logging territory, do not know much about this branch. The BN runs two parts of the old Milwaukee in Whatcom County. The first is the branch from Bellingham to Plant two mentioned above and another is the line out to Lynden. the Lynden branch is anout 10 miles long through the countryside, and has a train every few days. it can be up to 17-20 cars long with a GP38-2 for power. The Milwaukee had a Y at Hampton but that is taken out. There was also a small 2 track yard up there.....there is still track in place there at the wye. The track between Cold Storage and Hampton is all gone...there are really two routes.the origional route of the Milw was of the Bellingham Bay and British Columbia (BB&BC) and the line through town as well as the line just decribed meet north of the cold storage plant....there is nothing of that any more as it being torn up....I hope this helps lay out Milw in Whatcom County, if you have any more Questions. I'd be happy to help.
Much of the coal mined in Whatcom County was tunneled out, and a huge network of tunnels still exists under Bellingham and running several miles out under Bellingham Bay. THis is an ongoing source of concern in this area as no one is really sure where those mine shafts are or how stable they are. Were a shafy to collapse under the bay it could potentially saturate a significant portion of the northwest part of the city and cause massive sinkholes as seen in other parts of the country. Somthing similar to this happened about 15 years ago in Yreka CA when an old gold mine collapsed under the town resivior. WIthin a matter of minutes Greenhorn lake drained through the shaft into the streets of downtown. There was a crater under the dam several hundred feet across,and no lake. THe damage has since been repaired and Greenhorn lake is once again home to the local waterfowl, but it's an interesting reminder of the potential from forgotten mining shafts.
I've no idea if there is still any interest in this topic. But here goes. I see it mentioned that the Milw had trackage rights Seattle-Bellingham. I'm not aware of any on that portion of the BN between Seattle and Everett. Although there may have been a detour or two. After the barges were discontinued, prior to the BN merger, Milw trains were routed up their "Everett Line." Cedar Falls-Monroe, then via trackge rights on GN Monroe to Lowell, there back onto Milw at their ("Belt") yard. The GN forwarded the Milw traffic to Bellingham. Before floods damaged that line in the 1930's, the Milw actually had it's own tracks all the way into Everett. Some of the old r-o-w is visible yet today. Their old depot in Monroe still stands, as does the one in Snohomish. Post-BN merger, the Milw gained additional trackage rights. After shut down of the old Everett Line north of Snoqualmie Falls, Milw trains got on the old NP Lake Washington Belt Line at Renton Jct. At Snohomish (Bromart) there is a connector track, that swings to the west so the trains got back on the old GN trackage rights, and on into Everett. Post-merger they did run their own trains to Bellingham. Note was made of the Goshen area. This was once known as Goshen Junction. heading eastward from there to Kulshan, was their branch known as the "Nooksack Line." This line was almost gone by WWII, and totally removed in 1943. When you drive on SR 542 east from Goshen, some of the road is actually on top of the old r-o-w. Sumas was an interesting operation. A friend who worked at that Milw agency has told me about what they had to go through to interchange, and with Customs. For those who didn't know, the Milw actually owned the tracks across the border. 500+ feet into Canada. Well, enough for now. Hopefully someone will see something of value here. Best - BoxcabE50
Boxcab- Where on SR 542 does the road ride the roadbed? I live 2 miles from there and don't know where that part is.. My uncle and I think that it crossed 542 and crossed the Nooksack where SMITH Road would cross the river if it had not deadended. I am very interested in finding wherte it crossed the river on the kulshan line. can youplease E-mail me at bn9900@yahoo.com and tell me a little more about it? Thanks
BN9900- As I lived in western Washington for nearly 50 years, I was able to acquire originals or get copies of some wonderful stuff. (Not to mention knowing some interesting people!) One of these items, is a copy of the blueprints for the entire Milw Nooksack line. These are 1"=400' Right of Way maps from the RR's engineering department. On these maps, are shown dispositions of the r-o-w after the rails were lifted. Several places are noted for going to either the county or state. Unfortunately, I must recall what I am able, from memory right now. We moved away a few years ago. And some items are still in storage back there. Amongst them my collection of blueprints. Hopefully I'll be able to make the trip before summer passes and drag a load back here. Then I could tell you almost exactly where to explore. Another nearly complete set of prints I have wished that I had at hand, show (1916) the Tacoma Eastern's never built line from Morton to Chehalis. It was surveyed, and some land actually acquired. One can only speculate what effect that would have had on the TERR or a short time later, the Milwaukee Road. I've wondered hwta would have happened when Mossyrock Dam was built. Would the r-o-w have been relocated? Abandoned? Would the RR have profited hauling construction materials? Oh well. Keep in touch. I'd sure like to see some activity on this board! BoxcabE50
Two different questions to answer: 1. Further west of South Dakota, they had at least one scheduled freight each way, plus most likely a local each way. You'd likely see lots of Geeps and SD9s sans dynamic brakes running through this section, plus GP40s and GP35s on the through freights. 2. I think most of the traffic MILW hauled into Portland was either destined there or handed over to the Southern Pacific. MILW dropped all passenger service to the west coast in 1960, so they never ran passenger trains on the former NP line to Portland. A good resource is The Milwaukee Road by Frederick W. Hyde, published by Hyrail. It's long out of print, but you might be able to find a copy on eBay sometime. It focuses on the last 30 years of the Milwaukee Road, and has a lot of information in the photo captions. Pat
Perhaps if we knew better the years BrianS was interested in, we could narrow it down some for motive power. At times it almost seems easier to name what diesels didn't show up west of Aberdeen or the Mpls/St.Paul area. Beginning in 1968, the new SD45's and the four U33-C's showed up. In 1973, the first order of SD40-2's came to the Pacific Extension. In 1974, even more SD40-2's, and the four U36-C's. Also, within this same time frame, the Milw began renumbering some of it's units. In 1971, with the coming of Amtrak, the FP45's showed up out here. On December 1, 1974, the "Train Number Designation System" was reworked. What had been the 'hotshot' or priority freights, #'s 261 and 262, became 201 and 200. In 1974, came the first of the SD10 program. The SD9's, SD7's w & w/o db's began slowly thinning out. Then came a few MP15AC's. On weekends, when they'd run a DFE, all kinds of stuff was rounded up. GP'9's, SD 7,9,10, MP15, U25B, U28B, U30B. All sorts of combinations. In October of 1979, the last of the SD40-2's were pulled off of traffic west of Miles City. But then some really rare stuff started showing up. A few GP30's. A couple of "GP20's" (Really a GP9u or GP9m.) In Mid-January of 1980, at least three SDL39's came to western Washington. Through it all, the SW's continued to chug along everywhere. And the noted F units with slugs did their thing. Most west end branch line passenger service started going away in the 1920's. And was gone by the mid-1930's. An exception was on the Northern Montana Divn. Numbers 15, and 16 were cut back in mid-May of 1961. However, not totally off. Only to Deer Lodge. Until finally chopped back to the Twin Cities in 1963. After the BN merger, the Milw ran all the way to Portland. Where the friendliest connection was the SP. Milw power regularly tied up at the SP Brooklyn Yard. When speaking of books, don't forget the color series done by Morning Sun. So far there are two volumes on freight cars, etc. And four on the RR except Lines West. Plus the one volume on the Electrics. There are two more volumes planned which will cover Lines West. The word that I have is that they will both cover the same area, but in different time frames. It certainly is difficult to start thinking about these things, and realize the last train that I saw was well over twenty years ago. Some of the memories still seem so very fresh in mind. BoxcabE50
