Continuing with my trend, I`ll be so brazen as to actually start a new thread, here. I like FM C-Liners (it`s a very recent love affair), but I`ve been able to find precious little info about the Milwaukee`s roster of C-Liners, aside from the synopsis given in the Hyde & Sanders book on “Milwaukee Road Diesel Power”. It is a very nice book, but also a little lofty in price for a book so exclusive in its subject selection, since I`m not that obsessed with Milwaukee road diesel power. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows about the history of the Milwaukee`s C-liners. I do know that Fairbanks-Morse was a Milwaukee road customer, which is why they ultimately ended up with so many FM locomotives, but the C-liners are somewhat of a mystery. I`m hoping this will trigger some memory circuit in Boxcab`s hard drive and he will be able to respond with his characteristic avalanche of information.
Check out the Wikipedia page about the Milwaukee Road. At the bottom of the page is a resource - Milwaukee Road Locomotives - you will find the C-liners there.
Well, on this one, I am not a font of information. You are correct about a major reason for the MILW to buy so many various FM models. The plant as I recall was on a MILW line, Beloit, WI. The C-Liners were freight engines. There were twelve "A" units and six "B" units. They lasted until into 1966, when all eighteen were traded to EMD against two batches of GP40 orders. I do not recall ever hearing of them straying off the eastern lines and coming out west. If so, it was brief and most likely a test situation. They may not have been well suited (no dynamic brakes?) for mountains. What additional data are you seeking?
Well, anything that would be relevant. Surprised to learn they may not have had dynamic brakes. I just have down a lot of reading on the Canadian Pacific C-liners, and how long they lasted. It seems the Milwaukee did not get good longevity out of their C-Liners.
Can't say for certain they did not have dynamics. As the MILW was known for experimenting with power all across the system, this is one which they apparently did not. If they did not, this might explain, at least in part, why they were not at least tested out west. There were some C-Liners built which definitely did not have dynamics, but whether or not those included the MILW, I cannot say at this point. They did last fifteen years. What they were traded in on, was power which could be and was able to be utilized much further across the system. And with less down time. Those opposed piston engines are a major undertaking to do any serious repairs. For some reason the US Navy and maritime users did well with them. But in railroading it was different. I'd not be surprised to learn that EMD sold the prime movers of those trade-ins for remanufacture to marine use. Such was the fate for a couple of the former Chehalis Western FM switchers- Sold to a marine engine rebuilder.
Boxcab is pretty close.......the 6 A-B-C (Milwaukee designation) were built in 1951 and retired in 1966 and 1967 for GP40's. They were numbers 23 - 28. The units DID have dynamic brakes. The only reason I can see for them staying back east is that ALL (at least that I can find) the FM engines stayed on the eastern half of the system.....probably a maintenance thing.
You may have already checked this out BUT on the Wikipedia site for the Milwaukee Road you will find, at the bottom of the page(s) a roster with some detail of all the Milwaukee power including the C-Liners. These units did reach Harlowton, Montana on a regular basis - don't know how much further west they went.
Those were the "Erie Built" passenger units. Which some did make it west of Harlowton. But they were a different model from the freight hauling C Liners in question.
The Erie-Builts were the exception to the FM engines staying in the east........they pulled the Hiawatha all the way to the coast, but they always returned to the east. No FM engines got assigned in the west. The west was always the home of the EMD's .....starting with the first 2 FT ABCD sets that ran in the Gap between Avery and Othello. Of course the was also the minor detail of all the electrics in the west. I have seen a a reference that said the 2 FM CPA-24-5's made a test run on the Olympian Hiawatha, but can't verify it.
Aside from their smallest switchers, such as Whitcomb, etc, there were a couple of ALCo S2 out west for a while. One is pictured in a 1947 employee magazine, pulling a train through the famous Riverside Slide area on the Yakima River, east of Cle Elum. I also seem to recall a Wade Stevenson picture of an RS1 coming through Othello. I have seen where someone claimed to have seen FM switchers on the MILW south of Fort Lewis, WA. But that's purely mistaken identity. What he saw were the Weyerhaeuser FM units down near Western Junction, running on trackage rights over the MILW.
Just took a look in J. Micheal Gruber's new book The Diesels of the Milwaukee Road, Vol. 2. Gruber states that The GM C-Liners (the CFA 16-A & B Units) worked freights to and out of Harlowton for a period of time when they first joined the Milwaukee in 1951. Gruber also notes that the C-Liners (not the erie-builts) were painted in the typical maroon and orange paint scheme and they did, in fact, have dynamic brakes. My Grandfather spoke of these units at Harlow - said they were underpowered for the branch line north out of Harlo.
It was not at all unusual for the MILW to try out (test) new power on the west end. Units such as the SD7, SD9, GP38-2 all came west first, before being scattered out. I have yet to see any evidence the C-Liners worked Lines West- Which transcontinental main track was considered to be west of Harlowton. They might have made a test run. But in any regular service, nothing is known. Nothing shows on any existing assignment data from the Mechaincal Engineering Department. It was all electric, except branches, to Avery. Diesels only on a very occasional work train or as helpers (so-called "Sputniks")added to electrics. O/M/B paint was standard when those units were delivered. 1952 was the year the first new "road" power (EMD SD7) was delivered without maroon. It was the beginning of the end for that paint scheme.
From what I have read, the C-Liners found their home on the CTH&SE lines, unit hauling coal trains. Like their Baby Trainmaster cousins, which they were mechanically similar-if not the same, they were luggers, not really good at high-speed freight. I also read in an NYC review of these units that they had an appetite for cooling water, and required a lot of TLC to keep in operation-burning up traction motors and bearings on a routine basis. This made them more useful for daily, short distance runs. The FM plant in Beloit, WI (I drove by it in '07) was located on a branch line off of the Janesville-Davis Junction line. They were a Milwaukee customer, but had also supplied the H-10-44 and H-12-44 switchers, which served the MILW well for decades, as well as the Erie-builts and Trainmaster line. It would have been in the economic interest for the Milwaukee to buy from and support an established customer. However, the poor quality control that became evident on these units probably proved to management that future engine purchases would need to come from EMD, and the new GE units that were coming out. The financing options that GM and GE could offer also may have helped determine this. It's conjecture on my part, but I hope it helps. Mark
Actually pretty good conjecture. I have read comments from MILW officials as to what you describe and I'd say you are spot on.
Thanks! I have my moments...not many...but I have them. On a side note, not to hijack the thread, but I have been taking my 5 YO nephew out to the Grand Trunk main in and around Inlay City. He's learned signals, derailing frogs, ballast, drainage and what the large circular pipe coming out the bottom of the old GTW caboose on display conveyed.....right down to the tracks! Future Foamers of America.
Talking to folks around central Montana, I find a lot of Mis-IDed locos.......confusion seems especially bad on the FM locos. But I still have never seen any pics of FM's in Montana.......doesn't mean it didn't happen though, but you'd think there would be pictures SOMEPLACE. I'll keep looking though.
From mid '64 thru early '66 the C liners could normally be found working the two freight trains each way daily from Bensenville souton the Southeasten. Usually in A-B-A sets.
The comment about them being underpowered is a little intruiging, as reading in other areas about C-Liners, most notably the Canadian Pacific's famous fleet of FM Locomotives, they were generally regarded by crews as being extremely hard pullers, and could start a train from a standing stop on a grade, where GM locomotives would stall. Although this was more often noted in the H16-44 line and the Trainmasters. Perhaps he was referring to their horsepower rating, which wasn't all that high. They certainly didn't lack for tractive effort or pulling capacity, but they weren't exactly high horsepower. The Trainmasters certainly were high horsepower for their day, though.
