On the side I have started to collect a few Nn3 models, at least as long as they might have run on my favorite Cumbres and Toltec Scenic RR. So far I only have a caboose and the newly issued boxcar. When I place them together, however, it looks like they might be a different scale. The running board of the boxcar is considerably lower than the one of the caboose. Does this merely reflect the difference in generation when the originals of these model cars were built? Or has MicroTrains goofed? I have tried to add a picture here. But it has not worked. Maybe someone could give me some advice? [ 26. December 2004, 20:04: Message edited by: swissboy ]
The Nn3 boxcar is the same shell used on Z Scale boxcars. Only the trucks are different. On a more positive note, a 40 foot boxcar in Z scales to a 28 foot boxcar in Nn3, so the car could be very close to the correct scale. Also of note is that from the photo's I have seen, much of the Narrow Gauge equipment was almost all different heights, with few of the cars being built exactly the same.
Well, my suspicions, then, are confirmed, I'm afraid. I certainly agree as to the different heights, but I doubt they were THIS big. Thinking about the original brakeman who'd have to use those roofwalks, that step would be rather extreme. I think the picture should work now: [ 27. December 2004, 20:10: Message edited by: swissboy ]
Now my next question: are all the other Nn3 models that Microtrains has also based on Z scale shells? But then, why would the caboose be so much larger? Or is the caboose a model that is true to scale?
The picture reminds me of comparisons made with a standard gauge car next to a Maine Two Footer. The box car seems out of place. Boxcab E50
OK, which one except for the box car, Jim? I'm not a person who goes about with a measuring device. All I ask for is that things LOOK right. And if they don't, like with this box car, I feel like having been cheated. Years ago, MicroTrains played such cheap tricks rather often for regular N scale models. I thought they had gotten over it. Which is why I had become a regular customer again.
Most of the serious Nn3 modelers like Tom Knapp, Jim Hoover, and Ted Brandon all use the Micro Trains cars, as well as others available from Republic Locomotive Works. I have some too, in fact the car you posted, I have as an Nn3 and a Z Scale car. Only the lettering is smaller on the Z cars. Narrow gauge cars were about 75% of the size of standard gauge cars, and Z Scale is 73% of N Scale, so I would not worry much.
It's not the scale I worry about, it's the fact that things don't seem to LOOK right. At least, I have yet to find a photograph of a boxcar coupled to a caboose where the roofs show such a considerable difference in height.
Remember N scale and Nn3 are both the same scale,ie 1:160 only the gauge is different ie std 4'8'' and ng 36''.Both caboose and boxcar do not appear same scale.Caboose is N scale narrow gauge and the boxcar is z scale std gauge,not the same. Yes some narrow gauge rolling stock is smaller than std gauge rolling stock but the fixtures are the same ie door hieght,grab iron size,couplers etc. Micro trains does make Nn3 rolling stock and it should be N scale 36'' gauge and not z scale. Republic locomotive works makes Nn3 rolling stock and locomotive kits.The loco. kits work on z scale mechanisms that just happen to be correct(or near enough to 36'' gauge in N scale). The difference between scale and gauge is important to remember in narrow gauge modelling so that the trains do maintain that smaller look amoung the proper scale suroundings. Clear as mud now!! eh. Regards Mike
Mike, I fully agree with you on the overall differences (or lack thereof) between standard and narrow gauge and the scale modelling. However, when I look at our modern Swiss narrow gauge and standard gauge trains, your statement quoted above clearly does not hold. The same is true for vintage American boxcars as displayed e.g. at Antonito CO on the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic RR. Narrow gauge has a lot more than overall size that it really smaller, in particular the couplers don't have to be that strong.
The Nn3 cars that Microtrains sells were developed as narrow gauge cars by a gentleman named Nelson Gray in the mid 1970's. He may have fudged a little so they could also be sold as Z scale. Or the prototype for the box car he selected may have had a lower roof height than other box cars used by the D&RG. I have photos showing box cars with different heights. The only one I have with a caboose right next to a box car shows them the same height. Otherwise the car scales out about right in length and width.
I'd forgotten all about the work he'd done. It has been a while. I believe you are correct. Some of his stuff was a little on the "freelance" side. Boxcab E50
Well, I have finally discovered such a picture in the book "The Thunder of Their Passing", that great tribute by Robert D. Turner to the DRG Narrow Gauge and the Cumbres & Toltec in particular. On page 34, there is a rather big caboose coupled to much smaller boxcars, giving just the impression of what I showed in my earlier post. The crucial part of the vintage photograph is even shown enlarged as well! And on page 59 there is a second picture, this time with a passenger car instead of the caboose. Both photographs date from the period between 1880 and 1890. Thus, if you are modelling that period with 2-8-0 locomotives, you are really doing things "to scale". But since I am more interested in the period of the outside frame Mikados, the combination I criticized still seems inappropriate.
In looking through my collection of photos, the Rio Grande still used their diminutive box cars well into the 1900's. I have a photo of one decorated for the new tourist railroad, Durango & Silverton. There is a man walking by who looks to be about 6 foot tall. The car side is about a foot taller than the man would be if he were standing where the bottom of the side began. The MT Nn3 cars measure out to seven N scale feet between the bottom of the side to right under the roof.
