LokSound Select Direct Micro DCC Sound

keithw Jan 1, 2019

  1. keithw

    keithw TrainBoard Member

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    Will this work in a Kato NScale sd70 and if it will what modifications will I have to do
    Thanks keith
     
  2. Dogwood

    Dogwood TrainBoard Member

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    IMG-20180520-WA0018.jpeg I think not. The ESU Select Micro are better for some INTERMOUNTAON SD40-2 or ATLAS locos. Without changes to the frame, nothing works. It is not actually a drop in. My tip: Modify the analog board and solder the ESU LokSound micro V 4.0.
     
  3. Dogwood

    Dogwood TrainBoard Member

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  4. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    Yes, you can use the Select Direct Micro in a Kato SD70. See the photos in the following thread at The Railwire (you may have to register to see the photos; registration is free):

    https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=44230.0

    However, in locos this big, a wired Select Micro is also a pretty easy installation, and it is MUCH easier to add a couple of keep alive caps to the wired Select Micro than to the Select Direct Micro:

    http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/esu-loksound-install-into-kato-sd70ace.105438/

    You might not need keep-alive in a loco as big and heavy as a Kato SD70, but my experience has been that ANY loco benefits from two 220uf caps wired in parallel.

    Note that there is no advantage to using a LokSound Micro V.4 (which costs $30 more that the Select Micro) in this application. The Select Micro and the V.4 micro are exactly the same, except that the V.4 allows you to program your own sounds. Since there is a fine sound file available from ESU for the SD70 (file #75820; also file #73825, if you are modeling an ACe), there is no need to roll your own sound file, even if you have the capability to do that, which most people don't.

    John C.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2019
  5. keithw

    keithw TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks both of you I’m kinda new to this and don’t know how to modify the light board I know you have to cut the traces but I don’t know where and jdcolombo where do you solder the caps at
     
  6. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    If you are going to do a hard-wired installation, I wouldn't use the old lightboard. I'd do it like Rick Brodzinsky did in the second link in my post above. It looks more complicated than it is, and note where he stashed his two caps.

    On a Select Micro, the caps are wired with the plus side to the blue function common wire, and the negative to a pad on the "back" side of the decoder that is directly below the blue wire pad at the very edge of the decoder board. You'll have to cut away some of the plastic insulation wrap on the decoder to get to the pad for the keep alive negative.

    See attached photo.

    John C. LokSound_Cap_Wiring.jpg
     
    Dogwood likes this.
  7. Dogwood

    Dogwood TrainBoard Member

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    Wait....you'll get a few pictures right away.
     
  8. Dogwood

    Dogwood TrainBoard Member

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    Look here:
    "Nscale drop in sound decoder" thread number # 5 here in DCC and Electronics
    I had already posted there. See attached pics in this thread.
     
  9. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    It is also important to note that all the installations require frame modification, even the "drop in" boards. At that point, I would highly suggest using the 73800, since it provides more options for how you want to locate the decoder, speaker and optional capacitors (although, I highly recommend the stay-alives for this loco). I have now done a number of these installs, and they are reasonably straight forward.
     
  10. Dogwood

    Dogwood TrainBoard Member

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    Especially for the speaker. I only use sugar cubes here.
     
  11. keithw

    keithw TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks guys I will get a decoder and see what I can do I have a lock programmer but have not used it yet I was wanting to get in to putting sound in some of my engines but have not done any yet going to try to figure this out
     
  12. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    OK. So if you're a newbie at this, you're going to need some stuff, particularly if you are going to do a wired installation like Rick's. First, you are going to need some thin circuit board that you can cut into small pieces (a Dremel with a cutoff wheel will do this nicely) to make connection points for various wires simple. I use 1/32" single-sided board for this:
    https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pulsar/50-1501/182-1017-ND/653185

    Next, you will need some LEDs. While I use 603-size LEDs, you can use the larger 1206 LEDs, which are much easier to handle. You want WARM WHITE ones - otherwise, they will be blazing bluish-white that looks like it came from outer space. Here's a possible source:
    https://www.amazon.com/Chanzon-Lighting-Electronics-Components-Emitting/dp/B01CUGACP4

    Or you can get wired 603 LEDs from TrainTek or Streamlined Backshop (search on their web site), but they will be about $3 each, instead of 10 cents.

    I've found that the best way to deal with these is to cut a very small piece of circuit board (small enough to fit wherever you are going to fit it - usually on the end of a speaker enclosure, but maybe across the frame for a front light like Rick did), then use the edge of a file to cut a line in the copper so that you have two isolated halves. Tin the two halves with solder, then place the surface-mount LED across the two halves, touch the soldering iron to the solder so that it flows to the LED, and now you have your LED soldered. Now you should be able to solder your decoder wires directly to the PC board; if you need extra wire, get some 36-gauge ESU decoder wire from SBS4DCC, here:
    https://store.sbs4dcc.com/search.aspx?find=ESU+decoder+wire

    For keep-alive caps, folks seem to have migrated to using Tantalum-Polymer caps, which are more forgiving of voltage tolerances than standard tantalum chip caps. 16v, 220uf caps are listed here:
    https://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/tantalum-polymer-capacitors/70?k=220uf+tantalum&k=&pkeyword=220uf+tantalum&sv=0&sf=0&FV=ffe00046,mu16V|2079&quantity=&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&pageSize=25

    Some folks prefer using 20v caps for extra voltage safety (although I've always used 16v ones, but I keep my track voltage at about 12.5v). You can do a search for 20v Tantalum Polymer caps on Digikey to see what is available. In general, shoot for having 400uf of keep-alive. That would be two 220uf caps wired in parallel, or 4 100uf caps wired in parallel. You'll have to see how much room you have and where/how to fit them.

    You will also need some dropping resistors for the LEDs. You can use regular round 1/8 watt, 1K resistors (1K is a good all-around resistance for LED wiring). Or you can get some 1/4-watt surface mount 1K resistors and mount them on a small piece of circuit board like Rick did (use the same technique as I described for mounting the LEDs). I think using a small piece of circuit board with SMT resistors is easier and makes a neater installation. You can get bulk resistors from Digikey for like 2-cents each. Order 100, because you'll lose a few - they are TINY.

    And you're going to need a low-wattage (15-25 watt) soldering iron with the tiniest tip you can find to solder all this stuff together. Everyone has their favorite (I use a $300 Pace digitally-controlled soldering station for this, but until I got the Pace, I used a Weller). Here's a link to a Hakko 15-watt via Amazon:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015TK02K8/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_RF7kCbS5XGG82

    Rick may want to chime in on other stuff he used for the SD70 install.

    John C.
     
  13. Dogwood

    Dogwood TrainBoard Member

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  14. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have started buying Poly-Ta caps from Mouser. They have some nice 330uF 20V caps (albeit at $6/ea), but 2 of them gets you some good capacity, and if you go to 3, well, you could probably even travel an extra half-inch. Last time I bought, these were some of the ones I purchased (p/n is the Mouser reference, AVX is mfg). Of course, specs and availability change, so always do a current search

    Poly-Ta 220 μF 20 V AVX 581-TCN4227M020R0100
    Poly-Ta 330 μF 20 V AVX 581-TCN4337M020R0100
    Poly-Ta 150 μF 25 V AVX 581-TCN4157M025R0070
    Poly-Ta 220 μF 25 V AVX 581-TCN4227M025R0100

    The Chanzon LEDs have become my go-to source. Quick response, good price.

    Another method, if needed, for circuit boards is to use PCB ties. Just make sure you insulate the underside with Kapton tape, or CA to a piece of thin styrene.

    Dogwood's method looks good, too. Depends on where you want to put the speaker.
     
  15. keithw

    keithw TrainBoard Member

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    I thank all of you for helping me.When I get everything I will probably need your help again and trying to program it
     
  16. keithw

    keithw TrainBoard Member

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    What size of speaker do I need
     
  17. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Highly recommend the Soberton 8mmx12mm, using the Keystone Details enclosure from Shapeways. Search DigiKey for Soberton SP-1208.
     
  18. keithw

    keithw TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks Rick and John and dogwood
     
  19. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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  20. Dogwood

    Dogwood TrainBoard Member

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