Kato's newest F7 Santa Fe

fluff Mar 9, 2016

  1. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    I don't know. It may have been something that varied depending on who masked off the curves when the locomotive was repainted. It could have changed from locomotive to locomotive or from era to era. Most photos I can find show the Kato revision to be somewhere in the middle. This F3 shows the yellow going way back and under the horn on the engineers side.
    scanner529.jpg
    And then this one shows it coming almost to a point.
    scanner530.jpg
    So I imagine you could just blunt the point on the old Kato paint scheme with some yellow and it would be correct.
     
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  2. arbomambo

    arbomambo TrainBoard Member

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    EXCELLENT!...I like that there were variations; BTW, 261LABC is, indeed an F7 set...the 260-series were delivered without stainless steel grills, making them easily identifiable. I love that pic with the 'freight' pilot, footsteps, and lifting lugs...I'm modeling one of my sets this way (Roberto produced a brass set of these style 'grills'-they require me cutting out that portion on the Kato units then gluing and painting them.) I may just use this number.
    Bruce
     
  3. locomcf

    locomcf TrainBoard Member

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    Many years ago I read, somewhere, that that was indeed the case, but despite searching my old papers for over an hour yesterday I wasn't able to find that article.

    However, I did find a poor photocopy of an article by Lee Berglund in "Railroad Modeler" on modelling cigar-band F7s, which includes a suggested template for masking the roof and nose curves. I used the template when I painted some Trix units as F7s a long time ago. Strangely, the photocopied pages don't say which issue the article was in, but from the way it is written, it was published when at least some of the F7s had still to be converted to CF7s. If anyone is interested in seeing the article please PM me and I will email a copy to you.

    Regards,
    Ron McF
     
  4. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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  5. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    However, as shown by the photographic evidence, the above reference is incorrect in that it is not what the railroad ended up painting on their locomotives. It seems that many model manufacturers have followed that data.
     
  6. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    Until I saw the photos of yellowbonnet painting underway in McMillan's "Santa Fe's Diesel Fleet", I had no respect for the incredible amount of hand masking involved in a Santa Fe paint scheme. I always imagined lots of stencils somehow, not piles and piles of masking tape individually applied on every single line - particularly on the herald. Those photos actually show the crews masking things off. No stencils. Somehow, I imagine that episodes of 'put the new guy up on the roof and do that part' simply must have happened.

    When you look at the 'oddities', particularly during the 70's on the yellowbonnet F schemes, it's a little easier to understand how that happened.

    So any accusation that 'things weren't entirely consistent' is probably appropriate. When I've been doing paint, I've had to pretty much resolve to 'pick a locomotive' and 'pick a year' and do the best you could, and you'll still probably only get it 90% right.

    I've got that railroad modeler article by Berglund and that's been my guide for years. There are certain things that are really, really 'wrong' (chromed silver sides!) but there's enough variation that sometimes you'll insist something is wrong only to be confronted with a photo that it really was that way.
     
  7. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    Here is a shot taken at the Cleburn Shop showing what looks to be a straight line across in front of the horns on 265L. The paint lines on different locomotives were all over the spectrum up there. ;)
    scanner531.jpg
     
  8. arbomambo

    arbomambo TrainBoard Member

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    this is making me feel a lot better about the paint on mine...
     
  9. fluff

    fluff TrainBoard Member

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    I like how this thread is progressing. lots of good pictures and information. I grew up in Comanche county texas watching the santa fe F units and then geep 7's on the Dublin subdivision. anyway, im trying to find a warbonnet B unit and not having any luck. need the newer dcc ready version. anyone know if there will be another run of these? I bought an older blue box one with micro trains couplers, but it runs slower than the new ones so I cant run them together on dc.
    thanks....
     
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  10. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    Going through all my books and magazines, it appears that this issue goes all the way back to the Cat Whisker paint scheme on the original FTs. The EMD painting diagrams call for a sharp painted V, but it seems that it was routinely ignored. All the photos I have found showing the roofs on Cat Whisker painted FTs F3s and F7s do not show a sharp point, just a nice parabolic curve.
    scanner532.jpg
     
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  11. WPZephyrFan

    WPZephyrFan TrainBoard Member

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  12. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    Check your PM/conversations.
     
  13. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    And yet more photos. It seems the best views are always the poor locomotives that have taken a dive. Here is a good view of the roof of 281L with the "Cat Whisker" paint job taken on June 23, 1953. This seems to be the most common rendering of the roof "vee".
    281L.jpg

    And then there is this one of 245C taken at San Bernardino in 1954 showing a "Cigar Band" paint job where they actually came close to the paint diagram that many model manufacturers use. To me it still looks a little wide but the closest I have seen to date.
    245C.jpg
    So the "take away" from all this is, if you have a roof photo of the exact locomotive you are modeling , great. If not, just go with what is easiest to pull off and claim you lost the photo. Chances are you are correct and if anyone challenges you, have them produce the photo. :ROFLMAO:
     
  14. glennac

    glennac TrainBoard Member

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    I have both of the new releases of the Cigar Band and Bluebonnet F7 and versions of the older releases as well. I thought is would be interesting to note the slight differences in the new verses old releases.

    Old on the Top, New on the Bottom. Notice the change in typeface of "Santa Fe" and the silver kick plates on the newer version (bottom).
    IMG_1134.jpg
    New on the Left, Old on the Right.
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    Old on the Left, New on the Right. Someone had observed a 'less than opaque' cigar band on the newer models. But my new one (Right) appears to be more opaque and sharper than the older version (Yes, I know the one on the left is a bit closer to the lens and out of focus but the improved printing on the right is still apparent).
    IMG_1136.jpg

    Old on the Left, New on the Right. Notice on the newer model the yellow strip extends across the grill (right) while it doesn't on the older version (left). Also, no yellow stripe on either side of the anti-climber on the newer version (right). I much prefer the painted number board on the older model (left) than the ones on the newer version (right).
    IMG_1133.jpg

    Just some observations. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  15. barlowfaudio

    barlowfaudio TrainBoard Member

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    The graphics on the new one looks way better.
     
  16. locomcf

    locomcf TrainBoard Member

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    In relation to the two blue-bonnets, the difference you've noted in the paint on the anti-climber is actually correct.
    [​IMG]
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    The model of 325, like the original, also has no vertical stripes under the nose headlight. There were other differences between the two locos as well, that Kato has not included.

    Regards,
    Ron
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
    r_i_straw likes this.
  17. glennac

    glennac TrainBoard Member

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    Ah! Thanks. Hadn't even noticed that.
     
  18. Spooked

    Spooked TrainBoard Member

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    I ordered a set of A-B-A Cigar Band units from Kato directly with DCC factory-installed. Do I need an additional B Unit to be more 'prototypically correct'? :confused:
     
  19. glennac

    glennac TrainBoard Member

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    Really, virtually ANY configuration was eventually prototypical depending on the length of the train. I've seen photos a chains of F7As & Bs with A-Units scattered about among the B-Units with no rhyme or reason. As long as there was a cab unit in front almost any configuration had a prototype at one time or another.
     
  20. arbomambo

    arbomambo TrainBoard Member

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    no elephant style A units running on the Santa Fe until 1960 or so....That's when MU receptacles were finally added to the noses during their regular shop overhauls...A-B-B-A and A-B-A , or A-B configurations only until that time...
    Bruce
     

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