.... as a collector with little skill that never saw the prototypical cars pulled by steam, i dont understand being dissapointed, so long as the manufacturer is close. I dont see in HD anyway, so my message is keep the US steam coming! Please!
I'm not sure which post yours may be referring to, but I know I have said before that I was disappointed in the steam being a pre2005 version and the cars being at least a post2008/2009 versions. As Bob has pointed it out, it would be easy (I'm guessing) to make the 844 post 2005 with an addition of another pump and firecracker antenna. Honestly I'm more excited to be able to do an N scale version than the one I have done in HO, not just because of size/length, but honestly the water tenders are a huge part of that, as there is non available in HO or N in plastic or brass. My main disappointment in Kato's choices are the only 7 cars. Kenefick because it seemed on most trips it was a middle car and not a tail car very often in any excursion, steam or diesel powered. I believe Kato is basing its 7 cars on what the 2012 UP Shiloh Limited had for cars, hence also their Twitter teaser when first teased about was the small consist before it picked up the main set in Council Bluffs. No inclusion of Art Lockman, Howard Fogg, Reed Jackson, and Lynn Nystrom cars; four cars that are primary steam cars no matter what locomotive was going. Art Lockman, Reed Jackson, & Lynn Nystrom cars were part of the hospital train for 4014. If that doesn't show how those cars matter to the Steam Program, then I'm not sure what else matters. UP844 SHILOH LIMITED STEAM SPECIAL CONSIST (Cheyenne to Council Bluffs): STEAM LOCOMOTIVE UP 844 WATER CAR "JIM ADAMS" UPP 809 WATER CAR "JOE JORDAN" UPP 814 UP 2010 C45AC "BSA HERITAGE" UP 2010 STEP CAR UPP 9336 TOOL CAR "ART LOCKMAN" UPP 6334 BOILER-DORM CAR "HOWARD FOGG" UPP 209 BAGGAGE CAR "LYNN NYSTROM" UPP 5714 SOUVENIR CAR "REED F. JACKSON" UPP 5818 Cars Added in Council Bluffs: POWER CAR UPP 207 CREW SLEEPER "OMAHA" UPP 200 BAGGAGE CAR "COUNCIL BLUFFS" UPP 5769 DINER CAR (KR) "CITY OF LOS ANGELES" UPP 4808 DOME DINER (SR) "COLORADO EAGLE" UPP 8004 COACH (VF) "TEXAS EAGLE" UPP 5483 DOME COACH (VF) "COLUMBINE" UPP 7001 COACH (VF) "SUNSHINE SPECIAL" UPP 5480 DOME COACH (VF) "CHALLENGER" UPP 7015 COACH (VF) "KATY FLYER" UPP 5468 COACH (VF) "PORTLAND ROSE" UPP 5473 COACH (VF) "CITY OF SALINA" UPP 5486 BUSINESS CAR(VF) "KENEFICK" UPP 119 FLAT CAR "CANNON CAR" UPP 3008 COMPLETE LINEUP: STEAM LOCOMOTIVE UP 844 WATER CAR "JIM ADAMS" UPP 809 WATER CAR "JOE JORDAN" UPP 814 UP SD-70 "BSA HERITAGE" UP 2010 STEP CAR UPP 9336 TOOL CAR "ART LOCKMAN" UPP 6334 BOILER-DORM CAR "HOWARD FOGG" UPP 209 BAGGAGE CAR "LYNN NYSTROM" UPP 5714 SOUVENIR CAR "REED F. JACKSON" UPP 5818 POWER CAR PC 207 CREW SLEEPER "OMAHA" UPP 200 BAGGAGE CAR "COUNCIL BLUFFS" UPP 5769 DINER CAR (KR) "CITY OF LOS ANGELES" UPP 4808 DOME DINER (SR) "COLORADO EAGLE" UPP 8004 COACH (VF) "TEXAS EAGLE" UPP 5483 DOME COACH (VF) "COLUMBINE" UPP 7001 COACH (VF) "SUNSHINE SPECIAL" UPP 5480 DOME COACH (VF) "CHALLENGER" UPP 7015 COACH (VF) "KATY FLYER" UPP 5468 COACH (VF) "PORTLAND ROSE" UPP 5473 COACH (VF) "CITY OF SALINA" UPP 5486 BUSINESS CAR(VF) "KENEFICK" UPP 119 FLAT CAR "CANNON CAR" UPP 3008 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=392957&nseq=0 https://twitter.com/KatoUSAInc/status/477451477477105665 I can live with the version of 844 they are selling as its the best for everyone that wants one, its the lack of cars in the set that is a disappointment in my eyes. Sure we can't have everything, but I would have hoped for a 3 or 4 car set of just the Steam Support cars.
Making matters worse (for those who want a longer, more prototypical train) is the fact that Microscale's UP Business Car decal set (60-1056) has been sold out for quite some time. Here's hoping they print up a new batch. Cheers, -Mark
The omission of Art Lockman (which is basically a machine shop) and Howard Fogg (has a steam boiler, which is apparently needed for some maintenance procedures on the road, along with HEP and crew bunks) is a bummer, as I believe both of those are actually more or less required to travel along with their steam locomotives, and looking at the roster, I don't see any other alternatives. As such, not having them would be something that would cause genuine consternation for guys that like to get bothered by such things. I suspect the express boxcars are also used to carry tools/supplies/etc. Reed Jackson (concession car) and Lynn Nystrom (concession storage) seem to be common on their longer "good will" tours, but, they're not mission-critical for the steam locomotives like Art Locman and Howard Fogg; in any excursion train, Kato's assuming you need some sort of public facing car, and the Promotory museum car, with it's gaudy flag decoration, is a good substitute and only takes up one car in the consist instead of two, so I can see why it was included in the set. I suspect Power Car 207 would only been used with steam trains so long that Howard Fogg's HEP would be insufficient, but, it'd be a good car to pair with their E units or other modern power on a business train, and there are several in that class. I've never seen a sleeper on their shorter trains either, so it's an odd inclusion for a 7 car set, but, I suppose the N scale crew has to sleep somewhere, assuming lodging isn't available elsewhere on the layout. Howard Fogg and Art Lockman would have been better choices for inclusion in this set if it was strictly a "steam excursion" set, but, they wouldn't travel with the internal combustion, so it's six of one, and half a dozen of another, I guess. I think the domes, coach and business car are pretty non-controversial. Dome coaches, dome diners, and business cars are staples of both the diesel and steam powered trains, and all three classes are pretty similar looking; only potential source of disappointment there is if they didn't happen to be on the particular train you want to model. Given that Kato wants a set that will appeal to both steam and diesel fans, I think they did a good job making appropriate compromises; nothing out of place behind their (or anyone elses) diesels, and certainly good enough for most steam fans. That said, I hope we can eventually get a two-pack with Art Lockman and Howard Fogg. Here are a few consists from nice "layout sized" UP passenger trains I've been fortunate enough to photograph and/or ride in the last few years; hopefully this is of some use to someone... Sooner Rocket, 2007 (OK/TX/?) UP 844 UPP 814, Joe Jordan (water bottle) UPP ?, Express Boxcar UPP 6334, Art Lockman, Tool Car UPP 209, Howard Fogg, Boiler Car UPP 5714, Golden State Limited, Concession Storage (since renamed Lynn Nystrom) UPP 5818, Sherman Hill, Concession Car (since renamed Reed Jackson) UPP 5480, Sunshine Special, Coach UPP 5779, Promontory, Museum Car (in US flag colors) UPP 7001, Columbine, Dome Coach UPP 5473, Portland Rose, Coach UPP 8008, City of Portland, Dome Diner UPP 7011, Missouri River Eagle, Dome Diner UPP 208, Power Car UPP 203, Idaho, Inspection Car Twin Cities Limited, 2008 (IA/MN/?) UP 3985 UPP 809, Jim Adams (flag water bottle) UPP 814, Joe Jordan (water bottle) UPP 9336, Express Boxcar UPP 6334, Art Lockman, Tool Car UPP 209, Howard Fogg, Boiler Car UPP 5714, Golden State Limited, Concession Storage (since renamed Lynn Nystrom) UPP 5818, Sherman Hill, Concession Car (since renamed Reed Jackson) UPP 5480, Sunshine Special, Coach UPP 7001, Columbine, Dome Coach UPP 102, St. Louis, Business Car Midwest Operation Lifesaver Train, 2010 (IL/WI/MN/IA/?) UP 1995, EMD SD70ACe, CNW Heritage Unit UPP 7001, Columbine, Dome Coach UPP 5486, City of Salina, Coach UPP 8008, City of Portland, Dome Diner UPP 103, Cheyenne, Business Car UP 5479, GE ES44AC Midwest Operation Lifesaver Train, 2011 (IL/WI/?) UP 7400, GE ES44AC, Pink Ribbon UPP 7015, Challenger, Dome Coach UPP 5483, Texas Eagle, Coach UPP 7001, Columbine, Dome Coach (was a dome-coach, not 100% certain on ID) UPP 114, Feather River, Business Car UP 2010, GE ES44AC, Boy Scouts Great Excursion Adventure (You Route the Steam Contest), 2011 (IA/IL/KS/MO/AR/?) UP 844 UPP 809, Jim Adams (flag water bottle) UP 1982, EMD SD70ACe, MoPac Heritage Unit UPP 9336, Express Boxcar UPP 6334, Art Lockman, Tool Car UPP 209, Howard Fogg, Boiler Car UPP 5714, Lynn Nystrom, Baggage / Recreation UPP 5818, Reed Jackson, Concession UPP 5468, Katy Flyer, Coach UPP 7015, Challenger, Dome Coach UPP 114, Feather River, Business Car
As long as I have the 844, the water tenders, and that car with the huge American flag I'm happy. I have a bunch of other UP passenger cars to add to the train if I need to run a longer one.
Agree completely. Remember the three foot rule... Would I LIKE to have the entire correct consist? Of course. But what Kato is giving us will allow the "impression" of a correct excursion train. And that'll do for me. I built James Norris' water bottles and am happy with them. I even bought a flag decal for a car, which I've been putting off and now don't have to do. I can now field an excursion train using my 3985, and no one who views it will see any difference. And when the 844 becomes available, the train will get a little better. I will know, but it's unlikely that anyone else visiting will - unless Charlie Vlk shows up
ALERT, ALERT!!! I believe Charlie just moved from Chicago to Tennessee. You have to be extra careful now.
Me too! Are there any RTR models of the UPP express boxcars they use? Google didn't turn anything up. I'd assume the tooling costs will ever prevent it from happening, at least all from Kato, but, there's certainly going to be a demand out there for an express boxcar, Art Lockman, Howard Fogg, Lynn Nystrom, and Reed Jackson.
Lockman and Fogg are pretty easy to do using existing Kato cars - The other cars would be a bit more labor-intensive, lol. Cheers, -Mark
1) Try Wig-Wag: http://wig-wag-trains-cart.com/Deca...enger-executive-train-car-names-passenger-car 2) The Walthers site suggests that the decal set is expected in stock by the end of this month: https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/460-601056
I have to disagree with your assessment of downplaying the importance of the Reed Jackson and Lynn Nystrom cars. Other than your OLI trains, which can use any number of the cars in the fleet, when are those two cars not used? As I said in my other post, Lynn Nystrom was even used in the hospital train for UP(P) 4014. Honestly the point is moot anyways, as Kato did the 72' Baggage car and is easily turned into whatever name you want to give 5714, but as for Reed Jackson, in all three of the steam trips you listed, its there. Usually where there is steam, it is there. It is the only car that isnt done by Kato that can be done with any modifications like the Art Lockman and Howard Fogg. All four cars are based in the steam shops in Cheyenne. As for the boxcar, unless you are modeling before it got destroyed, then it was on virtually every steam trip as well, even the 2005 844 break-in run. Those five cars have been used a good majority of every steam trip in the consist. As for why they are doing Willie James, that is the one odd ball. I did just see 3 sleepers on the Inspection special in July that had UPP 413 Lake Bluff, UPP 200 Omaha, and UPP 1602 Green River, but it does seem to be a rare occasion that that any of the 9 Deluxe Sleepers and 2 crew dorm/sleepers are used. I also understand where you say that Kato is doing them excursion set without them because they are dedicated to steam only, and by not including them then any body with 949/963B/951 combo or any other freight could pull them as a business train. They don't have to include them in the set, they could do just like they did the water bottles and offer them as an add-on set. Now if only they would run those numbers too. Again, I'm excited for this train, as now I can build a nice looking excursion train and not take up 30' of real estate like my HO version is becoming. Even with the lack of cars, I will be happy with what we do get in the set with a true UP business car, the power car, auxiliary water tenders, and flag car. As others have said, there is multiple ways of adding existing Kato cars to the consist to make it longer. Would be great when Microscale does redo these, if they update the names in even another sheet with it. Chris
That's an excellent point; perhaps Kato was just afraid of releasing a passenger train, that, to the casual observer anyways, would have had five "baggage cars" in it? Something like that wouldn't really look much like a passenger train, I guess. When I had the opportunity to ride the "Great Excursion Adventure" train in 2011 from Kansas City to St. Louis, they provided all of us with an informational packet on the consist of the train. Reed Jackson is a "concession car," of which roughly 2/3 is public space with a coffee counter, and table/booth where they sold snacks and small train trinkets. The other 1/3 is storage, electric, and a bathroom. Lynn Nystrom is just a baggage car with shelves in it; the schematic has several blocks labeled "Sales Items / Shelving", "Sales Items / Storage", "Storage / Display Equipment", "Mail Order Area / Storage", along with several lockers. I'm not sure whether or not those cars carry materials that are required to run with the steam locomotives though; my guess is not, but, I'm not sure. As an interesting aside, the concession car was staffed by several wives of the guys in the operational/mechanical part of the steam team; seemed like a pretty nice gig. The info sheet on Reed Jackson notes that in addition to steam specials, it also operated on the Olympic Torch Relay, and the George HW Bush Library trains. Regardless, I hope Kato releases all of them as ready to run at some point; hopefully they sell enough copies of 844 to make it a no-brainer.
Ya, when I caught the 3985 in Osawatomie, KS back in 2004 the consist was very simple. STEAM LOCOMOTIVE UP 3985 WATER CAR UPP 809 WATER CAR UPP 814 BOX CAR UPP 9336 TOOL CAR UPP 6334 ("ART LOCKMAN") BOILER-DORM CAR UPP 209 ("HOWARD FOGG") Baggage car UPP 5714 ("GOLDEN STATE LIMITED") CONCESSION CAR UPP 5818 ("SHERMAN HILL") Inspection car UPP 203 ("Idaho") When I asked about it back in June 2004 about the name of the car (forgot that I did), as it had been just renamed to GSL I got a response of: "Baggage car UPP 5714 was reassigned to the steam crew, who are using it for additional storage for concessions. When they went to Houston in January for the Super Bowl, they had problems with running out of certain items halfway along the trip. The baggage car lets them carry more goodies. If you'll notice if your photo of Golden State Limited, one of the steel panels that serve as passenger railings has been removed for easy fork lift access. As for the renaming, Omaha/Council Bluffs was willing to give UPP 5714 to the steam crew, but wanted the "Pony Express" name for another car (type and number still TBA). Hence the renaming as "Golden State Limited". There were many suggestions for the new name, most of which were not appropriate...<g>" Going off on a different tangent, it was really the only car that got a nod to the SP that was used on systemwide consists. Now we have just the two mostly captive in California, Sunset and Stanford. We need some WP and SP nods if they want to talk about heritage. Heck, if you renamed something the California Zephyr you could give a nod to noth WP and DRGW. Blue Streak would be a nod to SP/SSW. I, like you, hope to see UPP 5818 and UPP 9336 available from someone, whether it be Walthers or Rapido as long as its right. I would even settle for brass if it was available. Chris - Answering his own questions like babbling idiot.
Well, now you've honestly got me convinced about the concession cars; that's about as bare-bones as you can get, and there they are. Now I'd feel like a bozo running 844 without 'em. Blast! There's "Feather River," so they've got WP covered; there's also "Katy Flyer" (MKT), "Missouri River Eagle" (MP), and "City of Los Angeles" (UP/SP/CNW) as well as a few others on the UPP roster; surely there are nods to a few others there, maybe? They other pressing question of great importance now is whether or not I get the first round 844 that represents the appearance as I first saw it, or, wait until they produce a version with the nice white-walls as it appeared when I got to ride behind it. Given that Kato's also cranking out the MP36 in the Northstar livery as a ridiculously expensive Kobo Custom item, which will be the only chance to get that in RTR, I may have to end up waiting it out anyways.
Yes, it stands for Union Pacific Passenger, and all the executive fleet business cars carry UPP reporting marks. The Big Boy was also assigned UPP 4014 on its journey from Promona to Cheyenne. Chris
