Intermountain, I am displeased

urodoji Apr 22, 2018

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  1. dualgauge

    dualgauge TrainBoard Member

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    One problem with pre-ordering with hobby shop is not getting order in time. Only to find out shop did not get enough product in to fill all orders. Had this happen once will not pre-order any more.
     
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  2. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have been resistant to reserving items for some of the same reasons noted on previous posts.
    Essentially...
    I don't know my financial situation at the time of release (which is rarely guaranteed)
    I prefer to see and try before I buy. (some junk 'class' is still being made)

    Committing to buy through pre-order and then cancelling is embarrassing if you can't justify the expense or don't like the reviews of the product. I missed out on the Southern Pacific SD9 recently released by Atlas because they sold out before reaching the dealers/distributors. Some may still be available on the secondary market at a premium.

    ON the other hand... not getting nice looking good quality products due to lack of pre-orders is troubling. I think many of us missed out on those SP SD9 units because Atlas underestimated demand due to a lack of pre-orders.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
  3. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    Which roadnumers, and DC vs. DCC, would you be trying to find?
     
  4. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Perhaps I need to clarify. The old days of telling Jim, one of my favorite brick and mortar LHS owners, what I want... is over. Closed the shop.

    Today, I do order from mail order houses, via the internet. No pre-ordering. Ordering from those vendors and providers I trust. The whole process of pre-ordering is such a ruse as those who will order today may not want the item. once it gets to the preferred vendor. I worked for a hobby shop that promoted pre-orders and learned all to quickly the real story Seldom did those who pre-ordered... actually buy the item. We usually sold it to the unsuspecting...uhh...err...wary customer. At least we could test track it and sell it.

    Grumble, grumble, grumble and did I say grumble?

    We keep trying to establish a false economy along with all the fake news. What? What? What did I say?
     
  5. trainman-ho

    trainman-ho TrainBoard Member

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    Umm Rick....doesn't your President have that (fake news) phrase copyrighted?

    LOL

    Jim
     
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  6. SD75I

    SD75I TrainBoard Member

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    Just my opinion, but in my frantic searches for items that have been out a while, KATO and Micro-Trains seem to have made enough for all!
     
  7. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    Suppose that someone did not pre-order the PRR GP9 locos that Atlas recently released.
    Can you find them in-stock now at any of those mail order dealers you prefer to use?
     
  8. u18b

    u18b TrainBoard Supporter

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    I'm pretty sure that EVERY locomotive that IM announces is vaporware- meaning they aren't going to do it if they don't get enough reservations that they want/need.
     
  9. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have no idea whether it's available or not, as that's not my area of interest.

    The idea of a reservation is a rough estimate and not something fixed. It only shows there is a interest in said item. A informal survey of sorts. A ruse because most of the buyers we had at our hobby shop didn't end up buying the items they reserved... after we got them in. A lot of times the item was sold for less then we paid for it just to get rid of it.

    It depends on the brick and mortar LHS or the internet mail order house. The idea is to sell these jewels and do it quickly. Shelf queens aren't welcome and most LHS management won't buy something from the provider/vendor if they believe it won't sell.

    Pretty much the old adage is if you see it, want it, you better buy it. Your preferred train equipment won't last long.

    Manufacturers have a minimum production number they have to produce in order to justify making it. It's a profit lose thing.

    It's a gamble, a business gamble and after all the research and numbers are in. They produce it. in hopes it will sell. They usually do and the trend today is to underestimate the market.

    So grab at it while you can, if you be so inclined.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  10. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Ha, ha, haw, haw, and still LOL.

    Good one.
     
  11. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    That issue could have been solved by requiring a credit card number along with any reservation.
    Charge the card either when the customer claims the item or within, say, 30 days if they don't show.

    Back to the original question - where?

    But if sufficient pre-orders to meet that minimum production number aren't received, it's quite possible that the item doesn't get produced. This puts those consumers who prefer to wait and see the actual item before they decide to commit to a purchase in a no-win position. Don't pre-order and the item may not get produced; place a pre-order and risk getting stuck buying an unsatisfactory product.
     
  12. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    No! Not a chance in Hades am I going to risk getting a unsatisfactory product. I've done that to many times in my lifetime. Not anymore.

    I won't get into a pissing contest with you. You could probably do better then I at this point. Grin!

    What I was hoping you'd see here is the bottom line. Reserving is not a real indicator as to how something is going to sell. It is a good interest barometer but that's about it.

    From a brick and mortar LHS or a Internet Mail Order House perspective. That should answer the question of where? Their requisitioning process requires a prescribed amount of items they need to order. Most vendors have a set number of specific items they must order. So, does an owner of a hobby shop order in more then he thinks he needs and hopes he can sell? I don't think so, it's not good business. And.... I don't know of to many hobby shops that do that.

    On the other hand a network of hobby shops, conglomerates can take that risk, to a point. A group of hobby shops can act as a coop and take the risk. But most mom and pop's can't. Most owners of hobby shops, mom and pop's know their customers well and know what they want. They don't need pre-orders/reservations to determine such.

    My conclusion as was the managements thinking of the LHS I worked for: Pre-orders is just pipe dreams, hopes and wish-ful thinking blowing in the wind.

    I said, "For the most part a ruse."

    Does that help?

    Oh, and before I forget. I don't give my credit card numbers to anyone, period. Only at the time of purchase. I've been down this road before, too. Not a good idea.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  13. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    The purchasing advice I give is:

    Test track, test track and test track the item some more. Read the reveues. Watch for problems discussed here, of all places.. Be sure you know about the item before you purchase / buy it. You can't do that with reservations and pre-orders. Not at all.

    Let the buyer beware.
     
  14. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    How do you "test track" a product if the LHS doesn't get one in unless you first place a reservation/pre-order?
    If you wait for the reviews to appear, the product might sell out before you can read them and then decide to buy it.
     
  15. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    And if you do pre-order, and close that purchase order, you may get stuck with some of the headaches we have seen. From incorrect or lousy paint, to improper, missing or lousy details, poor runners, fighting to get replacement parts which should have been done right from the start, and...... This is what buying sight unseen does. No, thank you.

    You don't do this when you buy a new (or used) car, a home, blender for your kitchen, etc. But somehow we are supposed to blindly, simply accept it for our N scale hobby purchases. The idea of guaranteeing a profit is ridiculous. I won't even participate. It is NOT my responsibility to ensure such a thing will happen. That aspect is incumbent upon the manufacturer only. Either make your product attractive, affordable and readily available, or get out and go make boat anchors.

    After 45+ years in this scale, I am completely TURNED OFF by these STUPID ideas. Have sold off much of my N and am working in a different scale- where they go out after our business. Where they do not employ such tactics.
     
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  16. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    What other scale have you found where the "manufacturers" and local hobby shops don't expect pre-orders before they are likely to produce or stock a given item?
    If you don't pre-order an item, how easy is it to find one a few months - or a few years - after it was released?

    I don't endorse the pre-order system presently employed by many model railroad companies, but if one doesn't place a pre-order for an item it may not ever get made and, even if it does, without a pre-order much scrambling may be needed to find an unreserved one available for sale.
     
  17. Eagle2

    Eagle2 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    This is going around in circles and getting nowhere. I believe the relevant points have been made, so the end.
     
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