I gotta question

gcav17 Sep 27, 2020

  1. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    I know I know. Its been forever since I posted anything here. But as I slowly get back into this I realize I lost some info in my wee wittle brain.
    I can't find a new motor for my 4-4-2 HI from Fox Valley. Old motor was water damaged. And they are pretty much silent on this issue. So I am gonna be forced to buy one of evil bay. Now there is one available (whole dang set but oh well. More cars the merrier )
    However he said it's dcc ready. But ran slow through his digitrax decoder.
    Can that decoder go to DC mode? And if so will it destroy a motor ? AC to DC does not always work out well on the fixture. So what is the probable story here? Any guidance here will be appreciated.
    Oh. There will be changes on the CM and B. Stat tuned... But might be a bit.

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  2. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    The DCC decoder is designed to take AC power and convert it over to DC. Any Analog DC motor that will fit into your unit will work just fine. The decoder has a bridge rectifier built into it.
    DCC Ready, simply means a decoder can be added. Also saying, It does not have a decoder.

    You won't destroy the motor.
     
  3. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    Ok. But is there a function in the digitrax zephyr that converts to DC? And would that cause a DC locomotive to run slow? I do not know how the digitrax works. I am NCE.

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  4. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    I'm not the DCC guru here at TB. Hopefully one of these guys or gals will shout out here and give you a definitive answer. I suspect they are all watching College Football.

    DCC from any unit is AC driven. A DC motor without the decoder in place will hum or rattle. Going nowhere fast. Eventually I suspect that could cause problems for the motor.

    I don't know of any DCC power supply that converts over to Analog DC. However, I've heard other's here on TB say there is a setting where you can run Analog DC equipment from both NCE and Digitrax.

    I hope that helps.
     
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  5. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    Ok. Thank you Rick. I dont want to purchase a failed unit. Or another burnt out motor. Aaarrrggh

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  6. OlyPen

    OlyPen TrainBoard Member

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  7. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    I run DC locomotives on my Digitrax DCC layout. Its been awhile...but if i remember...all you have to do is set the loco # to 03. I've run DC locomotives anywhere from 15 minutes to 30 minutes at a time. They do get 'warm'...but never burned one up. Never leave a DC locomotive sitting still on a DCC track


    **** https://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB674/zero-stretching-operating-a-non-dcc-equipped-locom/


    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  8. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Doesnt sound like it has a decoder...its straight DC. If he ran it on DCC and ran it too long or let it sit at 0 speed...it can cause damage. Either way...it does make the locomotive heat up. BUYER BEWARE ! :whistle:
     
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  9. Run8Racing

    Run8Racing TrainBoard Member

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    This is some good info !!! I'm not DCC, and with 300+ locomotives, I will never convert. It is good to learn these things in case my locomotives make a visit somewhere !!!
     
  10. OlyPen

    OlyPen TrainBoard Member

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    Well, you can try that, but a DC loco won't budge. Address 03 is a default DCC locomotive address. All new decoders come addressed at 03.

    To run a DC loco on DCC, dial in address 00.
     
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  11. Rich_S

    Rich_S TrainBoard Member

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    That is only if your system supports bit stretching. From my understanding NCE does not support Bit Stretching and therefore cannot control a DC locomotive. Digitrax does support Bit Stretching allowing the system to control a none decoder equipped locomotive. Two things to remember on Digitrax system, even though you can control a DC (non decoder equipped) locomotive on the Digitrax system, you cannot control two DC locomotives independently. Which brings up the second point, on a Digitrax system you can add address "00" to a consist allowing you to consist DCC and DC locomotives together, but you can't add address "00" to two different consists. I've also seen manufacturers state not to run non decoder equipped locomotives that have a coreless motor on DCC systems that support Bit Stretching.

    On a side note, if you want to check your track voltage on a Digitrax system, connect the negative lead of your Volt Ohm Meter (VOM) to the ground terminal on the Digitrax command station. Then read the voltage from Ground to Rail A and Ground to Rail B and add the two numbers together.
     
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  12. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    You are correct. Like I said...its been awhile. I knew it was 0_ something. But the thing is...a DC loco will run on a DCC track. (y) The thing to remember is not to run it to long and NEVER leave it sit with the throttle at 0. Take it off the track ! If the loco the OP was looking to buy was run under either of those senerios...the motor could be damaged and he would be right back to square one...A bad motor. :cautious::whistle:
     
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  13. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    Ok. So if that loco 'ran slow' under dcc. He more than likely burned out the coreless motor. Thats really what I worried about. And since remotoring these things maybe impossible with no help from fox valley.
    Unless someone knows what to do .
    Until then. I guess I still have a shelf queen.

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  14. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    I built in a Cut Off Switch, DPDT for DCC and Analog DC. That way my DC powered locomotives never did run on DCC-AC power. A practice I don't recommend.
     
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  15. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    Oh good lord. The chaos that could happen!


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  16. OlyPen

    OlyPen TrainBoard Member

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    Neither will the MRC Prodigy system I have.
     
  17. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Advantage.....Digitrax...:p
     
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  18. OlyPen

    OlyPen TrainBoard Member

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    Yes, which I why installing my Digitax system in place of the MRC is in the offing. ..
     
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  19. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Point well made/played and I Like It! True, very true!

    For sure. It takes some serious discipline to keep in mind what is on DCC and on Analog DC. Usually, I set Cab B to DCC and only on the main. I'd hand off my (lousy) MRC throttle to Steve H., and let him run the main. In the mean time I operated the Coal District and Switched the yards using Cab A w/ Analog DC. You don't want to take a train on Analog DC and crossover into DCC-AC territory. I don't like engines that look like I added a smoke generator. Unless I did!

    By the way DCC isn't likely to show up on my layout again. Now that the MRC-AC-DCC power supply has died. This retired mortician gave it a nice send off. I said with a reassuring smirky smile. Heeheehee Good bye you lousy piece of junk. I did sing a song. "I'll be glad when you are dead you something/something" From the "Grumpy Old Men II" Movie.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
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  20. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    Sprog also does not support running DC locos via address 0 (or any other address).
     
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