How to make a Control Panel?

wombat457 Sep 29, 2017

  1. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    The little green connectors will be on the wires coming from the Cobalts (either one per Cobalt; or you can pair the two of the crossover onto one connection). The wires coming from the toggle (where the first "connection" is to the first motor) would go into the "mate" of the connector. In this way, the mate would be mounted at the bottom of your panel box (facing in towards the layout), and then you simply plug the connector from the Cobalts into the panel.

    Or, as I also said, you can go lower tech, and use Euro-style connectors. The upside of these is much less expensive; down side is having to attach the wires into the box and make sure all the pairs are correct (I hate working under the layout, so will always choose a more convenient method if only slightly more expensive).
    [​IMG]
     
  2. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    Rick,

    Thanks but think I will use what I have, which are these:

    [​IMG]

    I also have a number of 10 Post Boards as well and find them to be very reliable.

    I got the first of my Cobalt's today and they are so SO much better than any other similar product. It only took me 30 seconds to assemble them (including 1/8th" double sided tape included) ready for installation. 1 X fulcrum, 1 X wire and 1 X screw. No adjusting or the threat (fear)of over tightening anything. Based on this assembly, I should have all 18 of them done within 10 minutes. Once aligned with the turnout, it should only take another 5 minutes (if that) to physically install them. As said (or implied) much MUCH better than any other similar item.

    The ONLY thing I didn't see in the instructions was the size hole needed for the wire to go through to connect to the turnout throw arm and I'll be darned if I can recall what I used for those "other machines".

    Can someone tell me the size hole I need to drill please, I'm guessing it is only about 1/8" but also have a feeling it needs to be a little larger. Cutting a "slit" would be even better, if not a little harder.

    In line with that, the only down side I have come across is the Code 80 Peco turnouts do not have a "hole" centrally located in the throw bar. They only have holes at either end of the throw bar. I seem to recall that isn't a problem, just means the Cobalt's will be "of set" for the install, which also isn't an issue I don't think.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  3. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Tony,

    That board is fine for breaking out the inputs to the toggle switches, but is totally worthless on the output. They take the two wire DC input and gives you 24 pairs of contacts to tap into that voltage.

    After the toggles, you need to take the INDIVIDUAL signals from the toggle switches and get them to the Cobalts that the toggle controls
     
  4. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    Rick,

    In the wiring diagram two wires (+ -) runs from the power source (MRC Controller) to the Toggle Switch/s. Why does it matter if the power to the Toggle Switch comes directly from the Power Source or via the Terminal Block if all of the other wiring remains the same, as if a terminal block had not been used?

    What I am considering is the fact that I am going to have 18 Turnouts to power from the one power source, the MRC. Wouldn't it be easier to run the power to those turnout motors from a terminal block rather than have to "splice" wires into a secondary bus?

    This is what I mean:

    [​IMG]

    Exactly the same as your diagram, just not as pretty, with the Terminal Block inserted from which I can power all 18 Turnout Motors, toggle switches and lights.

    If this is wrong then I don't understand what I am missing sorry.
     
  5. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Right, but you need a way to get the voltage from your panel to the motors (the orange and blue lines on the right). Your motors will be installed on the layout, you will put your panel together on your workbench, and then you will mount it. How do you plan to connect the wiring between the motors and your panel? Sure, you can just make long wires coming out, but it will be cleaner if you have a way to connect/disconnect them. Primarily, you need to make sure the polarity of the inputs of each motor in the crossover pair is correct. The easiest way to do this is to be able to swap them in some screw terminal block/connector.

    Yes, your block works fine for the power-in, but there is power-out, too.
     
  6. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    Rick,

    That is what I am not understanding then. I don't see the difference (power wise) between having or not having the/a terminal block. All I see is the power coming from the power source via the terminal block instead of directly from the power source. All the terminal block is doing is allowing me to distribute that power to X amount of toggle switches to motors to led's instead of just to one toggle switch set of motors and leds.

    I'm not questioning your experience or wisdom Rick, I'm just not understanding or seeing what you mean when you say I have to get power out as well. If I can get power out without the terminal block, why does the inclusion of the terminal block then stop the power from getting out?

    If a terminal block (any terminal block) can't be used because of this power out thing then where does the power come from for the other 16 Motors, Toggle Switches and LED's? At best, I'd have to "splice into" what would effectively become a secondary Mani Bus and that (I would think) makes for a lot of extra work with more opportunities for problems.

    Here is how I understand the wiring diagram ...

    Power goes to the Toggles Switch from the power source. The power to the motors comes through the Toggle Switch (from the power source) and the power for the LED's comes from the Toggle Switch via the wiring from the Toggle Switch to the Motors.

    If that is even close to being right then I would have my Power Source some where beneath the layout (it doesn't matter where just so long as I can turn it on and off) ) and the terminal block in the vicinity of the turnouts. Pos/Neg wires from the power source to the terminal block then as per the original schematic. I just don't see (understand) how the inclusion of the terminal block that will allow me to get power to all 18 Cobalt Motors/Turnouts changes anything in terms of power getting to all of those components.

    I'm really sorry mate I thought I understood how this got wired up, but it seems I don't. Maybe I should say to hell with it and just change everything manually, ie by hand :(
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  7. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Does this help? You will need to multiply everything below the DC-in terminal block by 8 (all 8 toggles are fed from the upper DC-in block)

    The blue area is the interior of your panel. The DC source can be anywhere. You have 2 wires coming into the panel, and 16 pairs exiting. You can use the green mating connectors at the bottom, or some other connector.

    Control Panel LED Wiring.jpg
     
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  8. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    Rick,

    This looks completely different to the first diagram. I still don't understand how adding a terminal block, that merely converts a single outlet from the power source to (in this case) 24 outlets, can make this much of a difference in the wiring of everything.

    I believed, once I understood the toggle switch wiring and so forth, it would be just like wiring up 18 structures with lights using a terminal block. Power from the source to the terminal block then to the toggle then to the lights. Flip the switch down and the lights in the building that switch is for comes on, flip it the other way and the light goes off.

    In this scenario, flip the switch one way and the points move with alight coming on to show the active track. flip the switch the other way, the points move and another light comes on to show the new active track. Or with the red/green LED's, the LED shows green for the active track and red for the inactive track. It seems as though there are a number of different ways to wire things up to achieve that result which adds to the confusion, well my confusion anyway.

    I just might have to say to hell with it and just use run of the mill, hand thrown switching cos I'm not spending a box load of money on something that I don't understand. If I could use the initial wiring diagram with a terminal block then I'd be happy and (believe) I could do that successfully. Now I don't know and don't see how I can wire up 18 turnout motors when there is power coming from only 1 power outlet, the MRC Controller.
     
  9. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    There has been nothing different about any of the wiring diagrams, just trying to show all the different parts. The initial diagrams are showing the wire circuit, treating all the components (and any connectors) as "black boxes". Only the LEDs and toggles were broken out. Not even the panel was really shown. I tried to give an abstract concept (albeit rotated 90 degrees from prior drawings), above, on what your panel would look like. Seems it didn't work. So one last try.

    This shows your MRC controller which you are going to use as your source. It is somewhere under your layout, and 2 wires will run from it into your panel(s) [these wires may also feed other accessories and lights on your layout]

    Inside your panel, you say you want to use one of the breakout terminal blocks, to feed your toggle switches. COOL! That is a good way to do that. We see that breakout board on the left inside the pink panel, below. From it, a positive and negative wire will run from one pair of terminals to each of the 8 toggle switches. These will go the left most pair of posts on each toggle. You will then also wire the "X" from the left most posts to the right most posts (this will mean the output of the switch reverses polarity when the switch is flipped).

    Following the prior diagrams, you will bring wires off the center posts of each toggle. These wires will go to the 3 LEDs as well as lead to the Cobalt motors under your layout (nearby, but "away" from the panel). Use the previous circuit diagrams for the specifics of wiring the LEDs

    The rest of the trip is getting the wires from the panel to your motors. I have demonstrated this by the orange and blue boxes at the right side of pink panel. You need to provide a connection point for these wires.
    • You can simply run a continuous wire from panel to motor 1 of each crossover, and then daisy chain to motor 2 (not recommended)
    • You can run wires individually from the motors back to the panel, and then attach them to the wires from toggles
      • You can attach by soldering (not recommended)
      • You can attach by screw terminals (e.g. Euro Style) -- cheap, but can be a pain to access
      • You can attach using a plug system that allows clamping the wires from the motors
    I recommended the last option (the green plugs) since you do not know if each motor is going to have the same polarity as the others. Depending on how you mount the motors under the turnouts, you may or may not have to flip the wires to make sure your crossovers are both "closed" or both "thrown" per the toggle/LED indicators. Much easier to do this if the wires can be easily swapped (either of the last two options allow).
    Control Panel LED Wiring.jpg

    There is nothing complicated in the above. Just showing more detail. 8 crossovers = 16 turnouts = 32 wire connections on switch motors.
     
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  10. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    Rick,

    I understand the first schematic and can follow and build that without a problem. Bottom line then is I follow the original wiring diagram and just include the Terminal Block to accommodate the other turnouts etc.

    If that is all there is to it then that isn't a problem for me and something I can do. As I implied, I have built Panels for Structure Lighting before - just didn't call them a Control Panel so the physical panel is irrelevant in terms of the build. The only problem I had was what wires went where and to what - nothing else. Your original diagram cleared that up for me and that has now been confirmed.

    Thanks for talking me through this and for the time you took to put together the diagrams - it will not be wasted.
     
  11. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    You know there is more information out there then you can shake a stick at.

    Allow me to toss in my 2 1/2 cents worth (inflation): http://www.barstowrick.com/category/control-panels/

    To the OP., you have been well informed and shouldn't have any problems putting together a control panel. I don't want to take away anything from what has already been shared here on TB. So, it will be up to you or others tuning in here to take a look at my submission.

    You may or may not find it helpful. With Rick B. driving this conversation I don't think you could possibly go wrong. Best advice out there.
     
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  12. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    RickH,

    Yes I do know there is a lot of information out there. I also know that the majority adopts assumed knowledge and/or is therefore unclear to someone who is a complete novice. That is why I prefer to deal with one person who I can ask questions of and get responses to those questions.
     
  13. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    Okay, and at last ... I spent the evening (so far) wiring up a "TEST" using the following:

    MRC Railpower 1370
    Miller Engineering 10 Post Terminal Block
    DPDT Switch
    1 X Cobalt Point Machine
    1 X 1000 ohm resistor and
    1 X Bi Colored LED

    and it all works! The Cobalt moves very nicely and the Bi Colored LED changes from Red to Green and back again when the points are thrown. Now to add the other LED's and see if I get the same success.

    As proof, a crappy video showing that I DID do it -

     
  14. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    Okay - I have wired in a 2nd LED and it also lights up with no problem EXCEPT it lights the same color as the 1st. Both are either Red or Green. So, no disrespect to Rick, but if I wire the third the same way (as per the 1st schematic) all 3 will be either Red or Green.

    I am now assuming that when I link a 2nd Cobalt Motor, the 3rd LED would be wired into that motors positive/negative wiring which should then display the opposite color to the other 2 LED's?
     
  15. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Tony, look closely at the diagram! The middle LED of three is wired differently (backwards) of the other two
     
  16. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    Rick,

    Ahhh okay - I'm an idiot, your right. I didn't notice that sorry, I need to pay more attention to what I am looking at. Time to put in the 3rd LED then :)

    Thanks Rick and sorry for my over sight.
     
  17. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    SUCCESS!

    Amazing what happens when you read things properly :whistle:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now all I have to do is clean up the wiring at the rear:

    [​IMG]

    This is just a "Test Effort" to make sure I could do everything, so having MUCH neater wiring will happen for the actual Panel.

    Okay so now the time comes where I have to "thank Rick" a great deal. For his knowledge and his patience with me, thanks for persevering mate! (y)
     
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  18. Jovet

    Jovet TrainBoard Member

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    Despite this comment, I want to try and explain what RBrodzinsky was trying to elaborate on. It's a function of modularity.

    Consider your control panel as a stand-alone object. It will have two wires going into it from the power source. That is pretty simple. But it will also have 16 wires coming out of it which will feed to the individual motors. It's understandable, if not even likely, that you may wish to periodically change your panel in the future. To work on it, you'll need to remove it from the layout. You'll have to disconnect all 18 wires to remove the panel, and then later know which all connect together again to replace it. His point is that using modular connectors makes this a lot simpler and faster. This is especially true as things scale up, with more controls, more turnouts, etc.

    Instead of using connectors, a cheaper alternative is the use of a terminal strip. All the connections can be kept neat in a central place, but it will take a bit longer to wire it all back together versus just plugging-in.
     
  19. wombat457

    wombat457 TrainBoard Member

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    Jovet,

    Firstly, I didn't word my comment all that well. I should have said "I prefer to deal a forum where I can ask ..." instead of a person.

    I understood the reasoning behind what Rick was saying about the "modular connectors" but at that time, I was so confused about the basic wiring and wanting to get that right that neatness was the last thing on my mind. Trying to "picture" what was to happen just wasn't working for me and didn't until I had all of the components sitting in front of me where I could lay them out and see the real thing/s. The same now applies to the modular connectors. Okay, they will be neater and be time saving should I ever want to change the panel, which I seriously doubt I will, but looking at something in isolation of how it fits into the physical thing is not easy for me to do. Perhaps if I had one or two to see and feel and I knew what wires were connected to it it wouldn't be so much of an issue for me.

    Right now, despite the wiring mess, I am just happy that I could get it to work. That was my first (and only) priority. Now I can think about how to tidy things up for no other reason than aesthetics.
     
  20. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Obvious to me you are getting the answers you need and Rick B. is your go to guy. No problem here. I find the How To information he shares as very helpful.

    In time you may take a look my submissions on BarstowRick.com, but I'm not really worried about it. It's there if you need it and can be ignored, all at your leisure or pleasure.

    Now do me a favor and go enjoy the heck out of this hobby.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017

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