Hog Waller Junction

John Moore Mar 11, 2015

  1. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well I have been happily running trains all day trying to sort out what will end up being the motive power for the Turtle Creek and end up proudly wearing the Dashing Turtle. Tested 31 diesel locos and several doodlebugs. Only one of the doodlebugs will run worth a crap even after all the work and replacement parts. I think they are going the way of the Bmann 4-4-0s. I had previously tested my FA sets on this layout and they had passed with flying colors. The surprise was getting a piece of 6 axle power to run flawlessly on the layout and it was a RSC unit. So now it comes down to sorting out the absolutely best running pairs and the rest become parts donors. I had previously determined that I would only need 14 locos of either steam or diesel, or a mix to operate the layout satisfactorily. My scratch built NW-5 may just be one of the diesel survivors. Since most of my power will be running double headed I need to sort out which ones play together well.
    Notice in the background the loaded ore cars sitting part way down the grade from the mine and not moving. That is the holding action of the Cat Whisker Retaining System yet it allows cars to be rolled over them even when empty.
     
  2. Jeepy84

    Jeepy84 TrainBoard Member

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    Having locomotives to pick from instead of needing every one in the collection to be on the roster sounds nice. One doodlebug is how many most smaller railroads owned anyway right?

    Sent from the magical mystery box
     
  3. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Most all of my four axle diesel is running well on the tight curvature as long as the speed is kept down and I have a lot to choose from to run the mainline. The 44 and 70 tonners will continue to hold down the tight curvature trackage that is between 8 and 9 inch radius along with the geared steam. Going to try and keep future sections of mainline on the next modules to not under 9.75R. So I figure I need about 4 sets of road power or 8 locos and then one at the port, the sawmill, and finally the lumber camp. The other 3 will be a helper pool of single locos to add a 3rd engine up grade. Some of my Fs, FAS, and RS units will stay in my collection and be occasionally run as guest power on the layout. But I am definitely at some point in time having a 2nd thinning of my motive power. I will keep a few passenger sets as a collection and that will be it for them. I have a decent collection of shorter passenger cars and they will end up being the passenger trains along with a few railcars also on the layout.

    Steam is going to be another chapter and a lot will end up going because it just won't work on my type of layout. For whatever reason, I haven't taken the time to study why yet, a lot of my steam does not like the Peco ST 5s and 6s while the diesels just sail over and through them. Again some steam will stay as a collection like my S-2 Northern, the Kato built one. Once I settle the dust on the diesels I will start testing the steam and seeing which ones can be tweaked to run well on my tight track and through those ST turnouts. One of the reasons I suspect is that the flangeways on the STs are not as deep as say an Atlas frog.
    And while I work on the locos I will continue to tweak the layout some more, just saw another danged clump foliage tree I overlooked and I still want to try and get a plane up in the sky somewhere and now that I have a new bag of Lichen I still have some areas that need an application.
     
  4. Jeepy84

    Jeepy84 TrainBoard Member

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    The Sd45s I finally got decoders into run fine on the 9.75" curves of my test track, even at notch 8. I do have 11.1" "easements" into and out of them though, which definitely help. My only steam is a little Athearn 2-8-0 with blind middle drivers, so no issues there either.

    What's your timeline on starting the next section? I must've missed that this was part of a larger project til now.

    Sent from the magical mystery box
     
  5. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    So, we have:

    CWRS = Continuous Welded Rail System

    or

    CWRS = Cat Whisker Retaining System

    :D

    Doug
     
  6. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    No timeline as of yet. No room at the inn for another section and hopefully a move to a permanent retirement digs will provide the room for the rest. Much earlier somewhere in this thread I posted the plan for the entire layout which is basically an around the room based on a ten by ten and a point to point layout with two turntables and a wye. One turntable in the port area engine service, a second at the log camp, and the wye at the end of the upper level main section. I also had posted a final rendering of the plan in a post some months before this started. That is why I talk of the tunnel being eventually abandoned along with the incline and an upper and lower main. The incline up becomes a road with the trestles becoming one lane bridges except for the highest trestle which will remain a rail trestle that will access the mine off the upper main. Traffic will originate eventually from the port area and the car float operation and the rails will gradually climb to the log camp passing through Hog Wallow on the way. Once at the log camp the rails continue their gradual climb and eventually pass the resort area on the upper main on the way to the quarry and a brewery having doubled back now from the log camp. Grades will be around 2% or a little less and the mainline run will be somewhere over 30 feet depending on how much curvature I have. And that is the reason I talk double headed and helpers in operation. Most of the port buildings are in hand and built and even some of the dock areas have been done and packed away. Sawmill and rock quarry buildings are done as well as the brewery so quite a few things have been done and covered in various threads posted here. When the bench work is in it is just a matter of setting some of the major stuff in and doing the scenic work around them. So this little layout is somewhat temporary giving me some time to test out some ideas as far as construction.
     
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  7. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yippee! Play time. All the work has paid off! :)
     
  8. Jeepy84

    Jeepy84 TrainBoard Member

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    I should've done as you have done and built a small layout that can be easily incorporated later into a larger project. That specter of when are we moving has paralyzed me thus far.

    Sent from the magical mystery box
     
  9. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    That is why I built what I did and the size I did. It is lightweight and can easily fit in the back of my van or my Wife's truck. Future components are in the form of small modules and probably a good example of that is the ranch complex build I did last year. The ranch house, barns, and equipment area plus the bunkhouse all were built as small modules. A stiff artist's cardstock is the base material for each. All are packed away for now and when it comes time to pull them out I can arrange them according to the available space or even use some in another location. A lot of the future layout is built and just stored in boxes until I am permanently relocated. What I am doing is borrowing a little from Ntrak in having small sections that can be easily transported. I just am not using their wiring and track spacing. Having built previous layouts and having moved a number of times over the years I have managed to learn a few things.
     
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  10. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    I finally settled on the locos for the Turtle Creek Central if I go with an all diesel roster. Spent a nice happy day converting some of my Katos from their couplers to MTs. Took a bunch of filing until I wised up and fired up the Dremel attached to a speed controller. Two locos hit the trash, a Sw-9 with a broken motor magnet after being parts stripped, and my scratch built center cab that was just over sized and not to scale enough. The LL chassis under that went into the parts box. So I ended up with 18 locos. Three will be dedicated to passenger service and have steam generators. And as fitting for a short line that picks up it's locos here and there, used or surplus, it is an assortment. A former CP RS-18, a RS-2 with steam generator, and a NW-5 fitted with a steam generator from the GN. Road power will be two sets of SW-9s, two sets of Alco RS, and a set of 70 tonners. The four 44 tonners will be assigned to the port, sawmill, and the log camp. A couple of railcars will round out the collection.
    Thinned out a lot since the last photo and the passenger diesels are the ones directly in front of the station.
    The excess will go back into the storage boxes and some will get culled out further. I will hang on to some of my GN and SP&S power primarily FAs, FTs, F-7s and a couple of E units plus a small assortment of road switchers, and lastly a few steamers like my Kato Mikes and the S-2 Northern and SP&S Challenger.

    I have had an idea floating in my head for awhile now. If I should get so lucky as to acquire a much larger space I might do another layout. The point to point, of which this will be part, will not be increased in size. What I might do is a section of the Washington State mainland with a GN and SP&S line that interchanges with the island road via the car float and ferry service. One small yard for the car float service, a station, passenger and car ferry service and that would be it. The rest of that layout would be scenery. Pipe dream for now.

    Tomorrow after I get things stored away and the work bench clear I will start working on the steam roster for the Turtle Creek transition era. I don'y expect to have enough steam to fill out an all steam roster so I will do a transition era with a mix. This will take awhile since I am going to take some that don't run worth a dang and tweak them a bit to see if I can get them to run on the tighter curves of this layout.
     
  11. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    John, I was considering commenting on your expose' of an obscene display of power. However, upon reading your more rational approach to culling and selection, I will refrain. Suffice to say, you have achieved what most of us desire...a well scenicked reasonably sized test track, on which to select equipment that provide you with pleasure...well done, Sir. (y)
     
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  12. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    My test track is setting unused behind the door. It is 6 foot 6 inches with three ovals of track and some crossovers in between the ovals. I can start out on 11 inch radius and then switch to 9.75 and last to 8. I also have some of the ST series on the inside ovals to paly with them plus a few of the Atlas ones on the outside. Instead I have been using the small layout with its tight oval and the section with the grade. Just more fun to use. The final culled selection of locos is for the eventual entire layout. Normal operation with this little guy will be with about 5 to six locos at most so this is the only time one will see that many locos in one spot. They will be spread out over about 32 feet of layout wrapped around the room eventually.
     
  13. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Trying to work out an all steam roster for the TCC and it isn't very pretty. So far three of the steam has been declared junk, stripped of the usable parts and then consigned to square file #13. Also scrapped one of the homebuilt Class A Climax locos. Saved the powering mechanism and the body for parts and will build another that is better to scale and more reliable. Rod locos that have more than a 15 foot wheel base for the drivers will not run on this layout so that scraps all of the 4 axle steam. The only one that does run well and has earned a spot on the roster is the old time Athearn 2-8-0 with a driver wheel base of just under 15 foot and a blind driver. To earn a roster spot on the TCC a steamer has to be able to run continuous for 30 minutes with no stalling, hanging up through turnouts, and no tender or lead or trailing truck derails. Right now old number one, pictured below, is finishing her run and since she is a wood burner will either earn a spot as the sawmill switcher of the log camp where there is a wood supply since every thing else is an oil burner.
    Had some issues with the lead truck on my conversion of a 0-6-6-0 to a 2-6-6-0 so that is going in the shop to be converted back and a new pilot installed. Then I will see if it can earn a spot.
     
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  14. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    The number one spot earned itself a berth on the TCC roster and testing the number 7 the 0-6-6-0 after converting back from the modified form and adding a new pilot that I am still adjusting. The original tender years ago was a modified and lengthened slope back that suffered a horrible fate when it got to close for to long to some photo lamps. Now has the MP short Vandy.

    It also made the TCC roster as a road engine. In all 11 locos made the steam roster.
     
  15. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Interesting how many times when video-ing something the phone rings, a dog starts barking, etc....
     
  16. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yep and most all are spam calls. You have won a free (insert name here), or we are calling to check on your rug cleaning needs since we did your carpets before,( wrong since I never have had anybody do our carpets, we have our own rug cleaning machine), or the best one we are offering a much better line of credit and credit card, just provide your SSN, bank account number, credit card number, and a DNA sample. Caller ID lets me see who is calling and a simple entry of the number in the puter often gets a report on the most current spammer and their pitch. That call on the video was a spam call that I let go then looked up the number to see what type of racket they were in later.

    Now that I am done with culling the steam I will be starting to check my passenger car fleet to see what runs worth a tink. No 70 or 80 foot cars on this pike, just the shorties spanning two eras. I will keep out the steamers earmarked for passenger and run the cars around the track for awhile putting together my train consists for passenger service. And while things are happily running in the background I will start rebuilding my retired Class A from the ground up into hopefully a bit more compact loco.
     
  17. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    I had big plans for today but sometimes life gets in the way. Had to put the Wife's truck in this AM for a gasket replacement that was changing the oil every 100o miles whether it needed it or not. Then since She had taken one of her last days off before retirement I ferried her around on some shopping. Got back home finally and went to work on the older passenger equipment. I will have two sets, one to be used with the steam the other with the diesel roster. Shown below are the steam sets.
    The cars are a mix of Bachmann Duckbill roofed cars, Athearn, and cars kit bashed by combining several Athearn car types together. The red cars are kit bashed RPOs from several Athearn Overton 34 footers. Trains heading to the right are upgrade thus double headed. In this case of the outside track one it is a 4-4-0 as the road engine with a 2-6-0 as a helper.

    I am having to do some coupler height adjustments and have replaced the trucks on a few that just did not free roll enough. And a ST turnout is giving me fits again and I am just about fed up with adjusting so I may once again jerk a turnout and just stop fighting with it.
     
  18. Jeepy84

    Jeepy84 TrainBoard Member

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    Ironic, or coincidence, I actually just got two unbuilt Overton kits this week, did you happen to document these bashes?
     
  19. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Way back when I did them yes but a lot of the photos are gone. First off one is 39.5 feet long the other is 41.5 feet all with an N scale rule so you have to splice a under frame. Did find a couple of pictures though.

    Both were built as mail/baggage/coach with one having three windows in the coach section the other four. The RPO compartment door is taken from my assortment of building doors and those doors were drilled, cut, and filed out to size. The mail catcher is an etched metal part that I cannot remember who made them. The donor bodies were the 34 foot baggage and coach. While mine are at the 40 foot length one could manage to get one out of the two bodies if one kept the length the 34 foot and then take the remaining sections and do a combine or a 2nd RPO without the coach portion on either.

    On another note solved my derailing through the switch points and then started having hang up issues at a grade crossing. Thought initially the wood may have swelled so filed and sanded some to no effect. Pulled out the NMRA gauge and checked flange clearances and wheel gauges nothing amiss there. Not a coupler pin dragging and snagging something since I trimmed them all. Ran the loco a couple of more times around while I pondered the issue and managed to loose the trailing passenger car, of course in the tunnel. So I sent the loco in after it and it emerged pushing the lost car. Another area where I need work adjusting couplers that are too low on some.
    Got to looking at the loco sensing something amiss. Hey what happened to the 4 wheel pony truck, it is gone. Examined the little Atlas 4-4-0 and the small pin on the bottom plate of the mechanism was still there and appears undamaged. So how in the heck did it lose it's lead truck? And where is the lead truck? Of course in the danged tunnel. Did I say I hate tunnels. Decided to try fishing inside the new double tunnel portals and hey did I just feel something inside to the left side of the track. Reached in with a pair of long sharp nose tweezers and came out with the missing pony truck. Take that Murphy!!
    For whatever reason I decided to try running the loco sans lead truck through where I was having the hang ups. Sailed through without a hitch repeatedly. Hmm were those lead trucks on the 4-4-0s why I was having issues? Were the same issue causing problems with the one turnout? And for the third time I have the grade crossing tore out because I thought it was the issue.
    More investigation to follow tomorrow as to the why and wherefore of things. But considering the problems I have had with some of the steam, rod locos in particular, these issues were not happening with the diesels, and most of them sailed through the turnout that I was having issues with. Looking slowly like another nail being driven in the steam coffin, and getting closer in my dottering old age of going to simple 4 axle first generation diesel.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
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  20. Jeepy84

    Jeepy84 TrainBoard Member

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    That's great, thank you! I can't find much reference material, but I'm thinking that TVRy #54 is within the realm of possibility.
    http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tionv53.jpg
     

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