Hello all. This is my first time here. I used to have trains as a kid (HO and N) and built constantly changing layouts for them on a 4x8 plywood sheet in my parent’s car port. Would even run them with some cars on fire etc. Those trains are long gone and now I teach art at a high school. I was given the old shop room as the new art room and want to build a track that circumnavigates the room just over the doors. Also I want to have a way to have the trains descend and ascend to and from lower tracks. Maybe make a helix? A figure eight? The trains will travel through different environments like a big faux tree, faux stones, a glowing mushroom forest, a waterfall, etc. I am thinking that O is the best size because of the size of the room. Also because of the much better smoke production of locomotives in O over HO. I currently have a Lionel diesel set in O (Norfolk Southern) but will be looking to get a couple of steam locomotives that can produce good “smoke”. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I calculate about 180 feet of track for the upper track. Have to determine switches, curves etc. Also have to determine how to do the grades of 2%. Will I need some kind of booster for the electricity on that much track? I should add that I cannot take up huge areas below the door height, which is 88" to clear the door and a little over. BUt I would like to be able to run track at about 4 or 5 feet and then climb to clear the 88". Seems like either a helix or some kind of twisty-turny figure eight setup will be needed.
I'm not sure about a booster. One train doesn't draw too many amps, but resistance will build up in the track as you get farther away from the power source. You will definitely need feeders and a bus wire if you don't use a booster. I am no expert on big layouts, but I know some other guys on here will have some better advice on power delivery. I think the biggest trackplan challenge you will face other than elevation changes will be that outside corner on the top of your drawing. An inside radius is easy to make in the other corners, buy you will need to have the tracks swing out in some kind of balloon loop to get around that one corner. Another concern I would have is cleaning. A ceiling layout in a residential house or basement is relatively easy to keep clean, but if you have power tools in this shop, I would be worried about sawdust or other particles getting up there and being difficult to clean off. That could cause some maintenance headaches for locomotive drivetrains. A helix would be probably the most space-saving design, especially for your multi-foot climb. Switchbacks are another option for an even more compact design, but they don't allow for continuous running since you need to change directions. A helix in the corner of the room might work, I think you need to scope out where the best spot is.
Decide what kind of layout. Do you want to do switching or is this just for appearance / continuous running. Start small with an intention to expand. As a art teacher I'm guessing you have a good brain for spatial relationships, design and follow through. Start with: 16' x 2' frame using 1X4's Glue 2" thick foam to the frame Mount it on a wall Using O scale sectional track lay out several combinations to get a feel for how it all works. Then Sketch many many plans. If you have the luxury then do one with switching and one for just running. Three Ways to move the trains from lower to upper: GHA - Giant Hand Action Helix - Do you have the space for one? Nolix - The layout climbs around the room. Hope this helps.
Thank you! The tools left in the room are rarely used. It’s no longer the shop room and I use the vertical saw and table saw, sander... for an occasional project. Will use them for building the layouts for sure. Have thought of a simple little pusher locomotive with some kind of cleaning pad to run the track maybe once a week. I keep going back and forth between o and ho. HO is my favorite, but it seems O will give much better “smoke” and stand out in that room. I could always do an o track around the top, just going around a few places, and do HO for the complicated stuff. Was thinking about that because even though the room is huge, most of the space is used up for desks, supplies, etc. HO would let me create little areas all over, with a much smaller helix, switchbacks, and
Is the smoke for you or your students? What is the purpose of this layout? Who is going to see it? How permanent is it?
Smoke is for looks. The train will pass under and through some things and it would look awesome to see it billowing out as the train makes its way around. the students will see it on a daily basis. Also parents during parent teacher night. It’s to give the classroom another layer of cool factor. I’ve worked painting murals for kid’s rooms, done props, set design, and scenery for theater and tv, illustration... so will be using those skills to make things like a stone archway with a tree at the exit, little areas for the train to go through like a glowing mushroom forest, towns of different kinds, etc. Also string lights and light projectors... Permanency is as long as I’m there. Some of it will stay behind. I would probably leave behind a locomotive and some cars but take the good ones to use at home. Right now I do t have a place at home for them, but by then I would probably have a workshop in the yard.
Sounds like a good thing to do in such a class room. My history instructor in high school had model WWII airplanes hanging around. The local hardware store has one that hangs from the ceiling. Some of the employees don't even know it's up there. It's not on there smart phone. Rich
Thanks again. No kidding about the smart phones! I don’t allow them in the class because the kids can’t get off them. I literally give instructions verbally, write them on the board, and post them on Google classroom and still get “What? There were instructions?!” I’ve assigned something like; draw a room in 2 point perspective, with instructions and examples, and gotten drawings of a deer, flowers... I’ll update as project progresses. PS Any advice regarding O vs HO?
Can only speak for myself: If my vision gets much worse I ill build a O scale layout in my next home. It would be mostly just for running trains. But, Knowing me I would end up building a shelf layout in HO for switching. So: If just for show and running trains? 'O' scale. If you intend to get into switching and industries and for a wider variety of equipment and such 'HO'. Do a mock up, (out of cardstock or foam board), of a 40' boxcar in both scales and then stand at the opposite end of the room. Get a feel for how easily they would be seen.
Setting up an Around-the-Room loop above the doorways and windowsin HO or O will be relatively straight-forward...essentially, you are building a narrow shelf layout attached to the wall or suspended from the ceiling at a very high elevation. You may want to test how close to the front edge of the shelf the track needs to be so that all visitors standing in an aisle close enough to the track to see the steam locomotive details, will be tall enough to look over the front edge of the shelf to see the action of the rods and see where the drivers meet the rail. Taller adults and high school students may be able to see, but shorter grade schoolers may be able to see only the top half of the locomotive, if the track is positioned too deeply into the high shelf. In the 1950s and 60s, I had a Lionel steam engine that heated pellets or liquid to generate smoke. I loved the smoke effect, but there was a definite smell, which I assume was caused by microscopic/atomized oils or ash. Would those tiny particles be detected by a smoke alarm? Cancelling a false alarm in a school's art room may entail more than removing a 9 volt battery. If you want to climb a 2% grade from a shelf at 48" or 60" elevation to the upper Around-the-Room loop at 88", you will need to have a 100" horizontal Run for every 2" vertical Rise, which translates into 2000" (=166' 8") to rise 40" or 1400" (=116' 8") to rise 28". To climb 4" in one helix loop (the minimum rise sufficient for the loco's smoke stack to clear the underside of the next highest loop), you would need at least a 5' 3" diameter loop in HO scale, and 10 loops to climb 40" or 7 loops to climb 28". When considering where to position the helix, you should make allowances for at least 3 feet on one side of the helix for the track along the wall entering the bottom of the helix from the 48" or 60" lower deck at the back of the helix to leave the top of the helix at the front and take a tangent or s-curve to get back to the narrow shelf along the wall at 88" elevation. If the switchback option is used to climb from one area with scenery to a second area with scenery and switchback to a 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc....area until reaching 88" elevation, the lower areas with scenery may be deeper, but will need to become shallower as the shelves gets higher. If not, the lower shelves will block shorter viewers from seeing the upper shelves. Good Luck...This will be a neat layout!
Ditto on the feeders vs booster. You need boosters to run more trains, feeders to run more track. To descend from 88" to 60" at 2% grade, you need 1400 inches (or ~117 FEET) of track. That means you need some sort of helix structure, whether it be circular, oval, figure 8, etc. You need 4.25" to 5.75" minimum clearance from the railhead to the support structure for the layer above. So you're in the neighborhood of 6" or more elevation per layer of helix. Each layer needs to be ~300" long in track (at 2% grade) to achieve ~6" of climb. For a circular helix, that's ~8 feet in diameter (track centerline). That would work for O-27, but "scale" O trains recommend a 72" minimum curve radius, or 12' minimum diameter (track centerline). A minimum-radius, 2% grade, O-27 oval helix would be over 11' long, but only 27" wide (track centerline dimensions. It would need 4.67 layers. Note that curves have a magnifying effect on the effort required to climb a grade, You may not want to use the minimum acceptable radius for your helix turns, or adopt a lower than 2% grade. Please double-check my calculations. Do NOT take them as gospel!!! Note that if the helix is double-tracked, the above centerline radii would be for the inner track. Naturally, the larger radius, outer helix track should be used for climbing, and the inner track for descending. A figure 8 helix has to climb the minimum vertical separation distance in each half of the figure 8, so it would be less space efficient than an oval helix.
Would the "smoke" be allowed by school and authorities rules and laws. In the past I've heard some is rather toxic. Best wishes. Especially with the phones. Rich
The room has a very high curling, so I don’t think that smoke will be an issue. I have been pondering laying the track around the high area on some kind of minimalist support so that it’s not redoing on a wood plank but instead on sort of a trestle. The his way the train is really visible. The explanation about the helix makes me lean toward HO. Also the idea of switching etc. I'm gonna have look at some different helixes and switchbacks to get ideas. Again, thanks! And any ideas are still welcome! I’m anxious to get this going!
The one at the local hardware store doesn't sit on boards. It can be seen from below and it hangs from the buildings frame work. The frame work looks like it is the same as the metal roof supports. There is no ceiling. And I'm sure you will find some parents will oppose the smoke. It's just the way things have become. Best wishes. It's a great idea. Rich
I meant to say that my room has a very high CEILING. Typing on phone so it does the stupid autocorrect that is often absurd. It’s a rural school, so I have not experienced a very high level of idiocy from parents at all. Don’t think the smoke will be an issue.
While HO certainly has the upper hand in availability of a much wider variety of equipment, I think a larger scale would look MUCH better at the heights you require for passage over doors. And while the HO height clearance is considerably less than O scale/O-27, the minimum turning radius is actually smaller for O-27 (but not O Scale). The majority of your layout will be well above eye level, even while standing, and relatively far away. I would even consider Garden (G scale) railroading for this application, simply because the distance and angle of viewing benefits larger scales.
A good teacher teaches, a great teacher inspires. So impressive you are inspiring your students like this. I hope you will keep us posted on developments. Outstanding!
Thanks again everyone! Yeah, G-Scale would be awesome, but don't have the money for that. But you never know! What I am thinking is O Scale for the upper track, and HO for tracks at table height and a little more. The O would run along the top and through a few areas. The HO can be at a lower level and run through more elaborate places and wind around. Just the thought right now at this stage. Still learning the differences with O types, so not sure of that part yet. I'm swamped with some stuff right now, but will be starting the layout soon. Just planning for now. Anyone recommend a good book/source for planning layouts? One thing I was thinking of is a sort of huge helix that curls around the room. This would work for either HO or O. I can run some 2x4 from wall to wall and then make them to be either man-made bridges/trestles, or "natural" stone bridges, or both: like a sort of "stone" spur jutting out from one side and another spur on the other, spanned by a trestle. It's all very fluid right now. Since I am basing it on fantasy for the most part, I have pretty much free reign. I will record as much as I can of this build and put it on YouTube. Should be fun! So to be clear, a 2% grade is best, correct? So that's a two foot rise 100 ft, or 2inch rise in 100 inches? So if I am creating a "helix" or other rise in track, I measure how much track is needed for the turn from one level to next, and gradually raise it at the above ration? Or, if I need to have the train rise 4 feet, I need 200 feet of track? Sorry if I am over complicating it or not being clear. Still learning!
