Got my Z Scale SD75's today...

rray Jul 15, 2006

  1. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    Yes, the AZL CN SD75's showed up. First let me say they look simply stunning! I am very happy AZL produced these models. But, they are not perfect, as Ajin needs to take a bit more care when assembling this precision mechanism.

    These two were both way too slow of runners, as were 2 out of the 3 NS units I got last month.

    They were very quiet, but just way too slow, doing what looks like 20MPH at 8 volts. I hung an ammeter on and measured 90 milliamps out of one, and 85milliamps out of the second.

    I ran them for 15 minutes each dirrection, and the current draw on the slow one was 85ma and the faster one was 75-80ma, depending on weather it is on the straight away or a turn.

    From my previous experiments I had found that anything less than 70 milliamps is ok, but any more and you have too much friction in the mechanism.

    So I pulled them off the track and both were warm. I took the shell off the slowest one, used my tricky "Shave the Tanks Buckle Nub" with a new #11 blade, then took the tank off, and disassembled.

    What I seen this time was the black plastic shaft bearing blocks were wedged crooked, and the worm shaft was not in line with the motor shaft.

    I whipped out my Nair Drill ( a fingernail rotary tool that looks like a mini dremel ) with 220 sanding disc, and sanded all 4 sides of the plastic bearing blocks, and aligned all the shafts up straight, then put it all back together.

    Don't get me wrong, this took a bit of careful work to do, but when I had it all back together, I popped the shell back on and put it on my test oval, and now I get 60ma at 8 volts with the shell on! Now the loco makes noise too, but that is because the bearing blocks are moving around. This is by far the best I have achieved for reducing friction in one of these locos. Happy Happy, Joy Joy!

    Now I am committed towards tearing the other apart and reducing friction in it, so I can MU them. I need to get decoders in them too.
     
  2. ztrack

    ztrack TrainBoard Supporter Advertiser

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    Robert,

    Very interesting comments and observations. I have forwarded this post on to AZL. They have been taking these issues to Ajin so we can get them corrected. Fortunately, we have had few issues, but we take any seriously. I am very glad to hear you were able to get them working to your expectations.

    Rob
     
  3. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    Here are a few more observations:

    The motor by itself draws 20 milliamps at 8 volts.

    The locomotive stalls at 100 milliamps, meaning the motor has power but is not turning.

    When you get total current draw to less than 70 milliamps, the motor does not get hot.

    At 80 milliamps and above, the motor gets too hot, and the locomotive runs too slow.

    The bottom line is you have to get the current draw to less than 70 milliamps if you want a locomotive that will run well. To do this, you have to free up any friction inside that you can.

    That includes free spinning truck gears, motor shaft and worm shafts must be inline so the rubber tube that connects the shafts to the motor is not kinked.

    The rubber tube being kinked it the major cause of friction based off all 5 of my locos, with the exception that I had plastic scrap flash in the gears of one of the trucks too.

    It takes a bit of extremely careful work to tune up one of these locomotives, and doing so is very risky work, but when it is tuned up just right, these locos pull like mules, and I cannot say anything negative about how they look. They are simply stunning! Now that I have a handle on tweeking them, I am very happy!

    -Robert
     
  4. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    Stall current is 100 milliamps. Each engine as delivered drew about 90ma and ran too slow. After sanding down the plastic bearing blocks, and adjusting the coupling tubing, current for both locos together was reduced from 180 milliamps to 65ma, and they now run very fast!

    This is 2 locos running at 8 volts drawing 65ma for the pair:


    [​IMG]


    Pleasing! Very pleasing! Now I can DCC them.
     
  5. ztrack

    ztrack TrainBoard Supporter Advertiser

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    Robert,

    Thank you again for the great info! I talked with Hans Riddervold today. He has copies of your findings. He will be approaching Ajin to see if they can fine tune the locos more before they leave the factory.

    I have found that running these locos for length also improves the slow speed issues. The break in period is very important. We ran a UP SD70M during the NTS for 3 days straight. By the 3rd day, this loco is by far the smoothest running loco I own!

    One note of caution for SD70 owners. It is very important not to run these over 8volts. Anything higher will cause the motors to overheat.

    By the way, did you notice the different detailing of the shell between the CNR SD75i and your NS SD70M?

    Rob
     
  6. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    Yes, I noticed the headlights are nose lights on the SD75. I am in the process of DCC and ditchlighting one right now. The smallest decoder that has functions supporting Ditch Lights is the NCE Z14SR.

    I fit the NCE decoder by turning it diagonal and milling away half the thickness of the shell inside where the components on the PCB stick out, which leaves enough room to do the wiring:
    [​IMG]

    The Ditch Lights are 0603 white SMT LED's, and are going to be wired to the front of the decoder:
    [​IMG]

    ;)
     
  7. Kurt Moose

    Kurt Moose TrainBoard Member

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    Robert, all ya' gotta' do now is paint them both in the black and yellow "canoe scheme"!! :teeth:
     
  8. ztrack

    ztrack TrainBoard Supporter Advertiser

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    Your good... but you missed a detail. Take a look on the right side of the loco. The SD75i has a raised panel that the SD70Ms don't. I love the fact AZL is adding the correct details to injection locos. You don't see this too often.

    The ditch lights are going to look awesome!

    Rob
     
  9. yoshi98bc

    yoshi98bc TrainBoard Member

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    Just wondering if anyone knows if there are drop-in decoders planned for the new AZL locos?
     
  10. shamoo737

    shamoo737 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    There is no such thing in Z scale. That is what I am waiting for before I go DCC. A drop in decoder. Not everyone has Robert skills.
     
  11. yoshi98bc

    yoshi98bc TrainBoard Member

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    Well, I know there is potential for dcc decoders for the MTL gp35 but I am wondering if anyone knows of plans for decoders for the new azl locos. Thanks
     
  12. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    Well, I finished one loco today. I started at 7:00am and finished at 4:30pm. That was a job, but I think it was worth it. It runs great, but has a small amount of mechanism noise due to sanding down the bearing blocks.

    I painted the LED's Floquil Engine Black, then Tamiya X-26 Clear Orange to kill the blue, and this is what light shined through:
    [​IMG]

    I still need to paint the LED inside the nose to kill off some of the "Rudolf" effect. ;)
     
  13. Torsja

    Torsja TrainBoard Member

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    Uhlenbrock digital decoder

    Nice Robert. :)
    How big is your NCE decoder?

    I just got a new one from Uhlenbrock Electronics that's the smallest I know off so far.
    It just fits inside my water tank on my Needle Eye steam locomotive.
    I also have got a white LED installed in the headlight. It's glued with superglue witch also serves as insulation for the wires. The light is actually just a little bit more yellow and it actually looks like a small bulb or flame in real life. Just the right kind for my locomotive. :)

    The Uhlenbrock Intelli Drive Comfort Mini 73 400 decoder is 12x7.5x2.7mm big.
    It has outputs for forward and backward lightning.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    Nice Project Torsja! I did not know you were doing DCC too! That's great!

    The NCE decoder is 14.5mm x 8.6mm x 3.2mm, and I sanded it down as small as I could. I also sanded down the corners off the components to bring the size down of the decoder. It has 4 functions and effects, like ditch light, that I needed.

    The Lenz Gold Mini that I put into the first SD70 I modified, is 11mm x 8.9mm x 2.8mm, but it only has 2 functions, and no effects.

    The Uhlenbrock looks like a good choice for steamers, as you only need the reverse light and firebox flicker, and you can wire the headlight to always be on as a DCC power indicator. At least that's what I do.

    Wire the headlight as a DCC track power indicator, use the yellow wire for tender backup light, and use the white wire hooked up to an orange LED, then use mars light, gyralight, or rotary beacon effect to simulate firebox flicker.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. ztrack

    ztrack TrainBoard Supporter Advertiser

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    Robert,

    Those ditch lights look incredible! Good job!!!!

    As for a drop in decoder for the SD70s... I can't say yes... but let's go with that thought.

    Rob
     
  16. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    It would be nice if the drop in decoder has 4 functions, so the modeler can do ditch lights, or a beacon or whatever else he wants besides just directional lighting.
     
  17. JR59

    JR59 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Robert, your CN beauty looks incredible!
     
  18. J o e

    J o e TrainBoard Member

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    Robert great job.

    I'm still working on my #700 CSX SD70 MAC. Is the 0603 SMT LED the smallest you can get for the ditch lights? Also did you just drill a hole through the plactic ones and let the LED shine through or did you remove the plastic ones completely? Since they are so small is soldering pretty difficult?

    Anyone know if AZL will be releasing the CSX SD70's as the MAC's? I probably should have asked this question before modifiying my NS SD70M.

    Thanks in advance,
    Joe
     
  19. JoeS

    JoeS TrainBoard Member

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    Too cool! That CN paint job is mighty nice looking as well.
     
  20. HoboTim

    HoboTim TrainBoard Supporter

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    0402 White LEDs

    Joe

    www.ngineering.com has smaller size white LEDs. 0402 are very small. They are caled nano on the website. Also has a lot of other items and useful tips. Check'em out!

    Hobo Tim
     

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