George grabs: (1) 25' length of 1/2 inch nylon rope. (1) roll of duct tape. (1) 12 volt car battery (NEW) (1) set of jumper cables (NEW) (1) bucket of water. (1) metal folding chair. Hollers over to Rick. "Hey bud...come hear...we need to talk."...ties Rick to the chair with the rope. Tears off a piece of duct tape and and attaches it to Ricks mouth (sorry about that with the beard and all...thats gonna hurt like the dickens when ya rip that off...LMAO). Ok...lets start from the top.... On the 1:1 When the train starts...the couplers will 'take up the slack' between the couplers...which will in a sense lengthen the train as the couplers from one car to the next 'take up the slack'. Bang....bang...bang...bang...On this we agree. When the train comes to a stop...the couplers will relax against each other and 'let in the slack' between the couplers....Bang....bang...bang...bang...On this we agree. When the 1:1 train is out on the rails traveling @ 60 mph on a FLAT stretch of track...there is no 'slack' coming or going. The last few cars are NOT banging couplers back and forth against each other (Slinky) Bang....bang...bang...bang !!! When that train comes to an incline...of any grade...the slack will be out of the couplers and the train proceeds up the incline. NOW...when that train reaches the top of the incline and starts down the other side...this is where 'slack' causes problems. The weight of the cars behind the locomotive are going to start moving forwards against each other just by gravity itself. Couplers are going to 'let in the slack' between themselves....Bang....bang...bang...bang. OK...do I need to connect the jumper cables to that car battery and pour some water on ya and touch the jumper cable ends to you chest yet ??? LOL. No...OK...Lets proceed then... On our N Scale 'toy' trains... The starting and stopping coupler action "SLACK" is much the same as the 1:1 and looks really nice...I agree BUT...when we run our 'toy' trains on the flats...which most of our layouts have lots of...the action at the rear of the train is nothing like what happens on the 1:1. Its NOT nice and smooth back there. Take a look at the last 2-3 cars on your consists with MT couplers. I can dang near gaurantee you are gonna see some Overexaggerated 'slinky' action...not 'slack' action...going on back there...back and forth...back and forth...Bang....bang...bang...bang. This is what is we ALL call "slinky' when it comes to MT couplers...@ the last few cars mostly. * George gets ready to pour the bucket of water on Rick. Checks that the jumper cables are working by touching the ends together ZAP...ZAP !!!* Dont make me do it Rick...roflmao !!! ** ALL the above has been typed 'tongue in cheek' when it comes to the torturing of Rick part !!! He and I are good friends !!
Hey George, I'ma not Jimmey Kimmell. Don't be pulling this $#!+ on me. It's "Exaggerated Slack" I tell you. No, no, get away from that battery...ouch...ouch...darn you!:sweat: A slinky is a toy spring that kids can have fun with...not MTL couplers. Sheez! Can't teach this newbie anything. And, for a minute I thought he was catching on. Ouch...ouch...that hurts. Untie me! I said in mufflered voice. LMAO Yep, good friends...for sure. Cardiac friends as of late...which should explain everything. A little to much nitro there George?:teeth: LOL
Ok...I'm gonna strike while the iron is hot !!! Rick my friend....If you...as coming from a long line of 'rails'...will agree to let all the thousands of us non 'rail' model railroaders call....what you refer to as "exagerated slack' ....be known as 'slinky' when it comes to the MT couplers... I'll start referring to model train 'turnouts' as 'switches' !!!! *Someone get the Tylenol...Ricks head is about to explode....R O F L M A O:teeth:
Gosh George, I had to take a nitro from laughing so hard. Now I have one hellatious headache...yep me head is about to explode. Never mind the burns on my body...you and that darn battery. :rats: Seriously, I don't give a Big Bear Dam what you call the action you see in your MTL coupers. Go ahead and show your ignorance. Same goes for switches. Darn, model railroaders who pretend to think they know all about railroading. I know, I know, "How about those Rails that don't know anything about model railroading?" quoting Russell Straw, (IMSMC). You wouldn't think he was talking about me would you? Strike two. LOLOLOL:teeth: You can't hi-jack a thread...Ken didn't pay for it and don't own it. Sigh! Sorry, Ken...no harm meant. To funny George, just to funny.
Ah...but the majority of us model railroaders have NEVER claimed we know...or care to know...a whole lot about the 1:1 railroading I am NOT a Nascar driver...but I DO Have a Nascar race game for my play station !!! Dont need a real train engineers license to run a model railroad...LOL
"Bunch of idiot foamers!" My step great granddad's favorite line. Engineer for the Santa Fe. If it fits wear it. COL To much fun, calling it a day.
Rick, You sure are stubborn. Everybody posting on this thread sees slinky, not "exaggerated slack" as you call it, but you. Exaggerated slack would be, car bangs forward, pauses, car slows, car bangs again as it takes the slack out. End of story. There is no force that is going to cause the car to accelerate again and cause slack in a real train on level track going a constant speed. In our models, there is a little spring in the coupler that pulls the car forward again. The car speeds up, once the car catches up and the spring tension is relaxed, the car will start to slow again from the drag of the wheels. This compresses the spring, building up energy until that energy is enough to overcome the drag and the car speeds up again. The continues in a smooth rythmic motion, not a Bang, Bang, giving it the aptly named slinky effect. If anybody has footage of a real train car doing this, I would love to see it. The only real couplers with springs in them are the cushion coupler cars and even at that, the spring is only connecting the whole coupler system to the car body. Both couplers are connected solidly together, that assembly is sprung to the car body so the coupler face distance does not change under load and there is no way to claim that it can cause slinky. This is at least entertaining.
Oh great Tony, you had to get in on the fun...toooo. Sheez. And right when I just finished saying I was going to call it a day. You want to see what, then go out by the railroad track and take your own pictures. Seems I already discussed when trains stop the air brakes are on and with our models there's no such thing. Anybody paying any attention. Oh right, "No one listens to Rick". Sigh! Call it what you want...something about ignorance. Didn't I already say I liked the MTL couplers the way they are and etc. They best not change them. And you are right...stubborn as hell. Comes from the German side of my family. Never mind the Native American side. If you click on the link you will discover we did win one for our side. All that genetic heritage makes me a real SOB and, you don't know how much.:uhoh: As always, good to hear from you (I think). heeheehee :teeth: Darn angina will mess with a guy when he's having fun. Go ahead and take your shots. I had my flu shoot. Gosh! We can talk more in the A.M. Tip: Watch out for those guys that talk about denial. It floats freely on both sides of the fence.
I agree with Tony. WOW...thats the 2nd time in 5 years !!!! Good thing I aint in a church with a weak roof system....R O F L M A O !!!
See, see what kind of friends I have. They really are good friends and we go round and round like a merry go round...every so often. Just wondering what took them so long to come back at me. Bunch of nim noses. Just glad Peteski, hasn't chimed in. He will. Ok, that's it from me...for now.
Cirst off, great tutorial, thank gou for posting. Loving the tongue in cheek (mostly) debates, but the obvious flaw that I see is thT we seem to be forgetting that physics doesn't scale. If you built a 1:1 scale plastic train and ran it through a stretch of territory (Cajon Pass or Donner ought to do nicely) i bet itd bounce more than the much heavier prototpe cars. They have friction, they don't roll as freely, and on top of that, what we call amflat layout usually has a lot slight bumps, dips, swells in it that our giantness vision misses but that someone a quarter of animch tall would call a mound. That's why we don't see real teains spNk, bounce, pogo, slimky, what have you. Physics don't scale down. Useless drivel aside, the titorial is a very good one. Were I not switchi g to a rigid coupler (sergents use a ball bearing to lock the knuckle closed) with no springs attached, i'd be very interested in upscaling this, as I've had plenty of Kadees bounce on me as wel. The amounts asidethere's way too much lateral slop in couplers in most scales and it sounds awesome that you've. Ut a lot of that out. I'd love to see a video of how the train handles. Might put a lot of this debate to rest. Or not, its probably up there with "what shade of _______ is that?". Phht! Ps. Love the smileys, those are adorable. So much better than the oversized smileys the forum adipted in my hiatus.
Rick, One thing I can agree/relate to in this debate, the Angina Nitro certainly gives a headache. The slinky/overexaggerated effect is 'note quite' prototypical (I am an ex engineman), slack in real life train terms is as others have described, the one thing that I do wish to keep though is auto uncoupling with magnets, any solution put forward must retain this feature for my interest to remain, not prototypical? either is sticking a great big skewer down between wagons (I usually manage to knock them off the track with this method), there will always be compromises and there will always be varied solutions. BUT! if we don't hear all sides, we will never know what works for us!
I'll try this again since it got lost in shuffle. Let's build a better mouse trap, I mean coupler. Has anyone considered retaining the spring in the MT coupler and inserting a nylon wire inside the spring to limit the spring compression? I am thinking of nylon wire such as fishing line, which can be bought in various diameters. It would need to be flexible allowing the coupler to return to center yet limit the compression of the spring, which is the cause of the slinky action. Let's not give up too soon on discovering a more permanent solution. It's just physics so what's the problem? Jerry
I believe David K. Smith is working on doing just that: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?142428-New-coupler-on-the-way&p=856878#post856878
There are currently a couple solutions to the slinky, it just happens that some feel they are either ugly or unreliable.....Accumate and McHenry couplers eliminate slinky. The McHenry couplers will fit in an MT coupler box with very minor mods. I have not seen any unreasonable reliability issues with either. Now that Bachmann has adopted the McHenry style coupler and now offer various shank lengths, the only obstical is that they are slightly larger than an MT coupler and that is objectionable to many.
