Well every once and awhile, you need to go through all of your decoders and possibly update the firmware etc. This is when you find out that some of the locomotives you had been running, or some that have not been run in a few months no longer work! As a maintenance project, I went through all of my locomotives with decoders to setup new speed matching settings. I have a very large number of failed decoders. And this is not limited to just one brand. It is limited to only decoders made by American companies. I would love to support the local US companies, but with over 500 failed Digitrax, TCS and NCE decoders, that is over $18,000 of lost decoders. The Zimo and ESU decoders have only 2 failures and I am pretty sure I caused one of them. Why can't Digitrax, TCS and NCE put out a better quality product? The numbers: Digitrax Failures 312/560 or 56% failure rate TCS Failures 228/418 or 54.5% failure rate NCE Failures 28/28 or 100% failure rate Zimo Failures 2/58 or 3% failure rate ESU Failures 1/36 or 3% failure rate Lenz Failures 1/66 or 1.5% failure rate Locomotives are almost all Kato or Atlas This is my nightmare
Those numbers do seem high. I can only compare to my fleet of 30 Atlas and Kato locos, I have never suffered a "failure". All NCE/TCS/Digitrax and a couple Lenz. Do you mean totally dead throw-it-in-the-trash dead, or having to reset a decoder due to no response? I have had a few that needed reset now and then.
Something is wrong here. Could you tell us a little more about how you update the firmware in your decoders and how are you testing them?
Firmware updates only happen with ESU and Zimo decoders. I should have phrased it differently as updating the programming of the decoders speed tables to a better motion profile. This was to setup my fleet to run with prototypical speeds and also setup consists. All NCE Decoders were Atlas Factory Installs that were sent back and returned the same way. I then took the locomotives down to check the motor leads were making good contact with the decoder pads. Still never worked. NCE refused to do anything about it. Never buying Atlas locomotives with decoders in them again. All the Digitrax and TCS decoders were 90% board replacement and the balance were wired decoders installed by a very solid professional installer. I have high number because I have over 1800 locomotives in my inventory, some are still awaiting decoders.
Dave, you used to get after me for saying "They are so Big Bear Dam difficult." Although my experience with decoders is not extensive and Dave knows this. My introduction to them got so darn complicated that just trying to program them off my old DCC power supply...turned into a nightmare. Decidedly there is a problem with my first run MRC, DCC Throttle. An old unit purchased at a swap meet by a couple of hard headed mountain guys who didn't hear, wouldn't listen to, the best advice out there. "Walk away from used electronics" I warned them. Then I got hood winked into buying one of them. Aiiyiiyii !!!! Learning where and how they came by it much later. Yes you could hear me cussing and swearing. Some described a mushroom cloud over Big Bear. Not LOL'ing. The group of model railroaders I hung with, would at times call me to come trouble shoot their layouts. I would trouble shoot power from the throttle, through the wires to the track and look for possible shorts in the switches. I figured if there's going to be a problem this is where it would show up...first. Most often I'd find something loose or not making a good connection and I'd re-solder the joint and we were back-up and running. The simple things first, as Steve would advise. This problem-o as described by Dave is way over my head but not his. If he is having trouble with his decoders then what hope is there for the rest of us. Frustrate, frustrate, frustrate. So, keeping with Steve's advice. Having worked with sound systems that go down. Having seen computers crash and lost things like a refrigerator or appliances. I'm wondering if there was a surge of power that went through the layout. Lightning storm, lines snapped during the winter, when power was restored it came through hot as in real hot. We saw that a lot in Big Bear Country. Our number one Electrician in the Big Bear Valley would recommend caution by unplugging appliances, computers, TV's and the like during one of these events. To have them all die on line at about the same time. That doesn't hardly seem right. Although, Dave and I have talked about this before. What decoders I had were die-ing off left and right. Those diesels are now converted back to analog DC. Low and behold they seldom fail me. Unless the light bar goes south. I can check and fix that but electronics's and the mystery of how they work. Hell No!! I didn't go to school for that. At the model railroad club I sort of belong to. They are having problems with the Digitrax Equipment. Not sure what's up and/or why, as I'm not privy. Well, the best Dave and I hope you get it worked out...back up and running. I think this proves a point you made to me a number of years back. Did we see this coming?
The failure rates seem very high. I have about 100 engines on the layout at any given time, and hardly ever have outright failures. I do have to do an occasional reset, maybe one a year. Brands in use include Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, TCS, ESU and Soundtraxx. Perhaps the problem is originating elsewhere. Many possibilities here - bad wiring, lack of circuit breakers, flaky command station. Can you elaborate on your environment? Michael Pennie
Hey Rick and all, I just want to point out a few things. Number 1 - Most of the Digitrax decoders are from the early days when they ever so incompetently implemented ROS technology to satisfy the EU. And it was also the days of Digitrax flow soldering using used 2nd hand pizza ovens. The days they were in Georgia. Number 2 - Many, but not all of the TCS decoders were from the time frame when they were first implementing trim, and it appears there we some bad code releases about that time. With still hundreds of properly working locomotives, I can easily say that it is not the locomotives or the installation, but the decoders themselves. I have done all the obvious troubleshooting like putting a known good decoder into a "bad" locomotive only to see the "bad" locomotive work flawlessly. And the converse, putting a suspected bad decoder into a known good locomotive only to see the good locomotive no longer runs. So there is a lot of evidence pointing at the decoder manufacturers and not the locomotives or the installation. I started installing decoders in 2003, so I have been dealing with the "growing pains" of the hobby in that respect.
Hi Dave and of course everyone tuned in here. Those frustrations can just ruin a guys day. Sounds like you've got a handle on it. But at what cost? The trouble with electronics's is there's no recourse if and when they go bad. Warranties if there are any......cease to exist. You had mentioned to me problems you saw with early production runs. Assessing the decoders at the time, as less then the quality you'd be looking for. Pointing to the lack of two way communication. I suggested that what we needed is a diagnostic tool, much like what they use with cars, to pin point problems in the decoder. MRC came up with a reader, that in my circle of MR's... ...no one could manage to make it work. Not the answer we were looking for. What I learned from mine is that setting them back to factory default didn't solve the problem. Once they were gone, they were gone. My question at the time, "Does a short kill a decoder?" Pretty sure that a collective number of shorts can weaken a decoder and eventually shock it out of it's mind. The emoji's make a point and is a secretly decoded message. They say what I can't say. If you get my drift.
Given the vast number of decoders you need to evaluate, for those decoders that are either of the plug-in or pc board replacement type (as opposed to hard-wired), have you considered building a test fixture so that they can be connected directly to a throttle/command station and tested for functionality without the loco or the track being a factor?
All decoders were tested before installation and all of them were ran for various amounts of time. It was not like the decoders were installed and then just sat in the jewel cases......
