This HO locomotive was donated to our museum in a non-operating condition. It's a lovely locomotive with an excellent reputation that I'd love to get operating. Disassembling the tender shows that someone had either tried to install a DCC conversion, or tried to modify the factory installation. Either way, it was not completed. There are 4 wires that have no connection at one end, two (red & orange) within the tender, and two (red & black) coming from the locomotive. Also, a red/black pair has been added with a connector that extends beyond the tender, as if going to a following car, possibly for track power pickup . If anyone can post the factory DCC wiring diagram with color codes, I'd appreciate it. Also a photo of inside the tender bottom with the motor removed showing the metal strips and wire connections. That way, hopefully I can return the system to its as delivered condition. Thanks for any help, Hank
I've done a number of DCC upgrades on fleischmann locos but all n scale. I don't think there is going to be much difference in HO based on what you are describing. Typically they put a capacitor and coil in line with one side of the motor going to track power then the other side of the motor is wired directly to the other side of track power through a contact system. I toss the cap and coil, remove the contacts to the motor or insulate them so they can't touch tender pickup strips then solder the decoder motor wires directly to the brush housings. The motor must be completely isolated electrically from the track pickups. The wires from the loco are for track power. Red should be right rail. I solder those directly to the brass strips that are used for track pickup in the tender then wire the decoder track wires directly to those strips. Ideally you want to remove the strips for soldering so as not to melt the plastic but usually they are stuck in place with plastic pins that have been melted to keep them in the chassis. If that is the case my solder points are the tabs where they go up to contact the motor. This way you minimize chances of heating up the plastic. The red and orange could be from the tender pickups but if someone has been in you have to follow them back to see where the other end is terminated. Another challenge for you is going to be the lighting if you want that to work directionally. Chances are if the loco is more than a few years old it uses incandescent lamps. I always replace with LED lamps and 750-1k ohm resistor on the negative lead and the positive is grounded to the chassis. I then run the negative to the appropriate decoder function output (front/rear light or white/yellow respectively). I'd like to see some pics of engine if you get a chance. I've never seen one in that scale in real life as I live nowhere close to a dealer that carried them. Roco bought out Fleischmann and discontinued their HO line. Any questions please let me know.
I was mistaken, there are three unconnected wires coming from the locomotive, red, black, and white. There are three unconnected wires in the tender, red, black, and orange. The gray wire from the decoder becomes black and is soldered to the forward metal strip in the tender bottom. It is difficult to determine if that solder point is factory quality. Though it is of better quality than the unconnected orange wire on the opposite end of that metal strip. There is an unconnected black wire soldered to the upper (in the photo) metal strip in the tender bottom to the left of the forward metal strip. It is possible this black wire was connected to the unconnected black wire from the locomotive. The unconnected red wire in the tender is soldered to the lower (in the photo) metal strip in the tender to the left of the forward metal strip. It is possible this red wire was connected to the unconnected red wire from the locomotive. Please let me know if you want more photos from different perspectives. Thank you.
Typically the decoder wires are color coded red, black , orange, gray, white and yellow. These are right track, left track, right motor, left motor, front light -, rear light - respectively. If this is not how they are currently then we need to figure out what kind of decoder you are using which likely means you need to remove the shrink then start comparing to the different decoders available. If it's a stock decoder then Fleischmann uses ZIMO. The red and black from the loco should still be track power and the white will be the headlamp. This assumes stock wiring. The easiest way to check is if you have an ohmmeter and can do a continuity test from each wire end to the drivers that have electrical pickup for the red and black wires. Otherwise and especially if you suspect someone has been in the engine I'd take it apart to follow the wires and see where they go. I can't really make out what is happening in the tender. It looks like the wires are soldered to a PCB board that fits over the motor that likely was used to conduct power to the motor brushes from the track, be a junction for tender and engine electrical pickup and control directional lighting. If that is true then the wiring seems a bit off but I can't know for sure till I see it with the motor removed and how it fits in the tender. If you remove the motor take a few pics and post them so I can better see what is going on.
The orange wire is sort of indicator some of the wires is ripped out of the decoder. Originally the 6 pin socket is in the main body of the loco behind the back wall, but it looks like this one was modified to take a 8 pin decoder. As Freddy said the black & red is the track power and on this model it comes from the front pony truck, main wheels and most likely also the tender wheels. From the yellow wire, which is the tender light, it looks like Fleischmann stuck to the live frame - don't need to use the blue wire. If that is the case and you want to use the blue wire you will have to isolate the lights from the frame. The black y sticking out of the loco is Fleischmann effort to hide the wires on tender locos. It also fuctions as connecting rod between loco & tender. It is not clear but if the orang/ gray is solder to tabs that is pointing upward, those tabs connect to the ones on the side of the motor. The remnant back and red wires next to it comes from the tender wheels pick-up and should go to the decoders black and red wires. On the Fleischmann web site under support/ spares you can see what spares are available and also download the spare list. This will give you and idea how the loco fits together but doesn't show the electrical setup. If you go to 411872 product page under downloads there is another pdf to download. See if there is a speaker in the loco next to the NEM socket. Fleischmann had as dc , sound and a AC version of the loco.
Thank you both for your replies. In further studying of the situation in an effort to answer your questions, I discovered multiple subtleties that I had missed earlier due to ignorance. What I assumed to be a single metal piece across the front of the tender bottom are two separate pieces isolated from each other. Further, each piece has a tab going up the opposite insides of the tender where they contact the motor brush tabs when the motor is installed. The decoder may have had eight wires. It now has two wires attached, red and green, both coming from the locomotive. The unconnected wires, white, black, and green, also from the locomotive, may have been attached to the decoder. The gray and orange wires coming from the motor brush metal strips may have been attached to the decoder also. The unconnected yellow wire may have been the eighth wire attached to the decoder. This yellow wire has a clip on its opposite end that fits over the tender rear LED mount. The LED return current path is through the tender weight and the left-hand longitudinal metal strip. This metal has two unconnected black wires attached. It is possible that one black wire came from the locomotive and the second attached to the decoder. The two green wires entering the locomotive from the tender go to a box in the cab behind the firewall mounted on the footplate. I suspect the box could contain a piezo crystal acting as a speaker. I have been impressed with advances of piezo crystals, significantly extending their audio frequency range. A connector for the five wires coming from the locomotive to the tender is not apparent. It could be somewhere within the locomotive, not accessible until the locomotive is disassembled. Though it could be part of the locomotive drawbar which I hesitate using force to disassemble. In conclusion, this appears to be an eight wire decoder which now is dead in the water. So, I have decided to rewire it to be a DC locomotive. I agree that this is a disappointing outcome. But this will be better than returning it to Fleischmann/Roco for a complete rebuild which would severely stress the budget of our non-profit, mostly volunteer museum. Having made the decision to convert this to a DC locomotive, I removed the heat shrink cover in hopes of finding a part number. Unfortunately, there is none due to board population density. However I did confirm that it is an eight connection board, all wave-soldered. I salute the board manufacturer, that is a well-designed board. It should fit easily into an N-Scale locomotive. Gentlemen. thank you very much for your observations, comments, and questions. They have allowed me to understand how this locomotive was wired. You may have guessed that I am ignorant of DCC. I have been a DC Dinosaur since 1947, and I see no reason to change after 74 years, now being 86. Thank you again, Hank.
I figured the green wires were for a speaker being that they are the same color. If you change your mind about updating to DCC I'd be happy to wire in a decoder and all it will cost you is the price of shipping. If the decoder in it is still good then we can use it. If not a basic decoder is pretty inexpensive.
Freddy, Yes, I'm interested, please talk to me. I'll happily pay shipping. Also pay for a new decoder if I have zapped this one by not grounding myself to its ground plane, which was not evident. I am sure you can verify decoder health. But if not, please feel free to replace this one. Will customs get involved? I doubt so because manufacturing and sales are not involved. Merely an agreement between two hobbyist friends. Thank you for your gracious offer, Hank
I'm in the Utah so it should be domestic as long as you are still in Mississippi. PM me and I'll send you my shipping details.
