Dumb questions you were afraid to ask...

HemiAdda2d Jul 8, 2004

  1. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Jerry, since you are our resident expert--
    How many tons do most larger coal trains on the western road run?

    About how many tons per car, and how many cars for say, a 17,000-ton coal train?

    Why do some trains run with dimmed headlamps, and then switch the lamps to 100% intensity, and turn on auxillary lights (ditch lights for us laymen)?
    I was watching a few DVD train videos this week, and it seems that the trains on heavy grades with heavy trains (Crawford Hill, for example) would run with dimmed headlights, and no ditch lights until they cam upon a crossing. Is this so all available power made by the prime mover/generator is delivered to the traction motors?
    I always thought that after aux. lights became FRA-mandated, that all trains must have them lit while moving, and headlamps at full intensity...

    How many of you folks have off-the-wall questions to ask, but were afraid to? Here's the place! [​IMG]
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  2. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon Passed away January 23, 2024 In Memoriam

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    Hey,
    As far as the tonnage question,that's JD's.I might be able to shed some light (no pun intended)on the headlight question.
    By rule,the headlight(HD)must be in the "bright" position.There are several times when your suppose to "dim" the HD.If your coming up to a meeting place,I.E., a train coming at you,in a yard if your just sitting there.Even if the HD is in the "dim" position,the ditch lights will come on with the horn.There is an exception,if your at a meeting point at a crosssing,HD must remain in the "bright"postion.Some engineers run in the dim position,because as long as the ditch lights are working as intended,they're covered.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene Mike :D
     
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  3. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon Passed away January 23, 2024 In Memoriam

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    Also,
    When the HD's are in the bright position,the HD on the train is very bright,& the ditch lights come on steady.When the horn is blown,they will alternate.they then become crossing lights.
    It doesn't matter if they stay steady or flash.AS long as they're on ,you can take a road crossing at track speed. :D
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  4. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Mike got the Headlight part answered, and for the tonnage per car, it would depend on the type of car.
    Different coal cars would have different capacities, however, each one would be in the 100-150 ton per car range, based on the tonnage charts I've seen on our coal trains.
    So, at 150 tons a car, a 113 car train would weigh in at close to 17,000 tons.
    The lower the capacity of the car, the more cars to reach 17,000 tons.
    When looking at a certain car, to see how much it can carry, look at the reporting marks.
    LT WT is the 'Light Weight' of the car. Thats the cars weight empty.
    CAPY is the 'Capacity' it is designed to carry.
    LD LMT is the 'Load Limit' it can carry safely.
    These numbers are in pounds.
    Remembering 2000lbs is a ton, a car with a 100,000 lb CAPY would be able to carry 50tons, and so on.
    :D

    [ 09. July 2004, 00:51: Message edited by: OC Engineer JD ]
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  5. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Are there modern aluminum coal gons able to carry 200 tons? I know the older 90-100T steel hoppers can only muster about 110T or so..
    I learned something. Thanks Mike, & Jerry!
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
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  6. SD70BNSF

    SD70BNSF TrainBoard Supporter

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    Hemi,

    I can hopefully provide part of an answer to your coal hauling question. I work for a power company and am working on modeling coal trains from the PRB to the Rush Island power plant south of St. Louis, MO. Our company (AmerenUE or used to be known as Union Electric) owns our own cars with reporting marks UCEX. Most of them are Johnstown America Autoflood-IIs, but we have recently started taking delivery of Autoflood-IIIs. They all carry about 120 tons a piece. The typical trains that come to the plant are 135 cars long, so that's about 16200 tons. All of our coal plants use bottom dump receiving pits. BNSF delivers to the Rush Island plant, but at our Labadie Plant, UP delivers. When I had access to track the coal trains from the mines, I noticed that our company has the longest trains while I was tracking, the others were in the 100 - 120 car range. I just recently bought the Pentrex PRB DVD and one of the Labadie coal drags was mentioned and filmed, except they pronounced the name of Labadie wrong. The limitation on train length is our unloading loop, in fact Labadie is considering changing the configuration of the entrance to the plant in order to make it longer. If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to try to answer.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
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  7. wig-wag-trains.com

    wig-wag-trains.com Advertiser

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    Having ridden on the Gallup Sub of BNSF & having spent hundreds of hours (pre-WWllc) trackside filming I believe that in many cases the engineers "forget" to turn the headlights back to full brightness following a meet (in daytime).

    If they know they have another meet at the next siding it may seem silly.

    Of course it's probably not as silly as looking at railfans frantically waving at them trying to indicate the lights are off.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  8. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    George, just thouch the top of your head with a flat palm, and lift, then touch, then lift, then touch. Thats the hand signal for headlight. ;)
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
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  9. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon Passed away January 23, 2024 In Memoriam

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    JD,
    did you get my email?
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
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  10. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Got it buddy. ;)
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
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  11. MagicMan_841

    MagicMan_841 TrainBoard Member

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    When I am watching trains, sometimes the engines make some clickety noise - not like track joint noise. I have heard this when the train is at a slow, 10 mph - speed.

    Any idea ?
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  12. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I would say it's flat spots on the wheels. Over braking has caused the wheels to slide, and it only takes a very short distance to cause a flat spot on the wheel. You can also hear this on the freight cars going by too.
    If your ever railfanning, and hear a complete train go by with EVERY wheel banging, it's a good bet that somewhere along it's journey, it went into emergency and all the wheels slid for awhile before stopping.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  13. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon Passed away January 23, 2024 In Memoriam

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    Got yours too.Nice ATSF avitar!!!!!!!!!!!
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  14. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    They sure do get loud, try being trackside when a few empty autoracks with flat-spotted wheels rolls (thumps) by... It will just about shake the fillings outta your teeth!
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  15. Sten

    Sten TrainBoard Member

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    Try working a train and hearing bang bang bang for 4 hours all caused by a tiny flat spot that isn't large enough to be a problem ie classified as a Class 1 wheel skid or less than 25mm in length. still annoying to listen to though
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
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  16. Sten

    Sten TrainBoard Member

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    just on that - does the US have similiar classifications for various wheel defects ie skids, spalling etc
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
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  17. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Correct answer below.

    [ 20. July 2004, 20:36: Message edited by: OC Engineer JD ]
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
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  18. doofus

    doofus TrainBoard Supporter

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    As far as the headlights go, the FRA has changed the rules about headlights within the last couple of years. It used to be that headlights were to be dimmed when meeting or passing the head end and rear end of another train. That rule has been changed. Headlights and ditch lights are to be displayed on bright at all times during daylight hours regardless whether or not you are meeting another train. They shall be dimmed during night time hours when stopped or to enable proper identification by other trains(so they can see the number boards). However, they shall remain on bright at a public crossing at grade. So it depends on the date of the video that you are watching as to which rule applies.

    Flat spots are to be no more than 2.5 inches long. Adjoining flat spots can be no longer than 2 inches each. Anything larger must be moved at a speed of no more than 10 mph and must be taken out of the train at the first available point.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  19. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks Doofus! I know the FRA is constantly changing rules for one reason or another every year.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
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  20. mdrzycimski

    mdrzycimski TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have a (dumb?) question.

    Does an engineer have some kind of remote control in the cab to activate certain crossing signals?

    I have seen some trains sitting very close to crossings and the lights (and gates) are not activated. When the train is about to start in the direction of the crossing, the crossing gates will activate. All of the time, the train was in close enough vicinity to the crossing to activate it if it was at speed.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
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