Domino layouts (newbie question)

I've come across a number of references to domino layouts and the claim that they are a particularly good approach for newcomers to the hobby. As someone who fits that category and is considering/planning/dreaming about a layout, I'm interested. But, I haven't come across a good description or definition of a domino layout and how it differs from other layouts, such as around the wall layouts.

So, my questions are:
1) What exactly is a domino layout and how is it different?
2) Why is it especially appropriate for newcomers?
3) Where can I learn more about this? (Either on the web or particular articles or books).

Thanks,

Harold

 

You must have been hanging out in the Lay out design sig forum, with Yahoo. I started a thread on dominoes, which has become long and drawn out. I don't think there is anywhre on the web you can go for dominoe theory. Some have built "dominoe" layouts, but it is still "new" in the model railroad world.

I will list what I have here: to save time I am not going to give the name of the article but they are all dominoe theory and how to build.

Model Railraod Planning Jan 99 p.60
also in same issue p.66

This article uses dominoe to build a smaller layout... Model Railroad Planning 96 p.42

Model Railroader June95...p. 70

Also Model Railroader Aug 95 p.106

Model Railroad Planning comes out only once a year, but you might look around for used ones at train shows.

 

DoctorJ, try: www.transalert.com page 29 of their catalog. The catalog is free, 110 pages great for real raliroad reference info, videos,even has Training Courses and Manuals on how to run, like a real GP40-2.

I have not heard of Domino layouts, unless that is the modular layouts that can be assembled in various configurations.

 

Yes, I did see this on the ldsig mailing list -- I got a little lost in the discussion, but it sounded interesting. That mailing list is a little intimidating for people new to the hobby, so I posted my question here.

Thanks for the references. I'll try to hunt down MRP 99 for a start.

Harold

 

yup, ldsig can be intimidating for beginners. They are a fairly focused group and much of the discussion is not aimed at beginners. However, lots can be learned from them. The current discussion there about dominos and 4x8s has been very interesting to say the least.

DoctorJ, You don't mention in your profile what scale you are interested in, or if you have a favorite RR.

I'm going to assume you are contemplating you first layout. The first thing you have to ask yourself is why you want to build a layout in the first place. Do you want to run trains around and around or are you more interested in switching? There are two basic layout styles, and island or a shelf. A shelf is good for switching and requires less space. An island is good for continuous running but you have to allow space all the way around it. If you don't know which you want, and you have room for an island, I would suggest an island style but select a plan that has a small switching area so you can try both.

The basic concept behind dominos is that you build your benchwork in uniformly sized 'dominoes' like 18"x4 feet, or 2x4 feet and that they have flat surfaces and are modular and moveable. The track can be rearranged by moving the modules around or you can strip everything off the top and reuse your benchwork in the same or different configuration.

Domino's are more suited for the shelf layout style, however they can be situated into an island. If you are thinking you want a flat 4x8 island it may be advantageous to build it as 4, 2x4 foot sections bolted together. This will allow you to reuse the four benchwork sections in any configuration you would like in the future. It takes a bit more time and material to build first, but it is easy to rebuild. If you look at the articles that rsn48 (Rick) suggested, you will see what I mean

If you are working in N scale, the easiest way to get started is with an interior door. (OK not one that you have now, go to the 'home super duper giant chain store' near you and get a damaged interior door for few bucks.) It is really easy to build an N scale layout on this inexpensive, yet sturdy platform. The Kalmbach book "Small Railroads You can Build" has a good 'door' size N scale plan. The same book as a great HO 4x8 plan. Both plans include continuous run and some switching.

And of course, don’t be afraid to ask us anything here at trainboard. We are here to help.

 

DoctorJ, our Yank living down in the Land of OZ, just answered both our questions I think. The HO layout I am building right now, is built out of 11 modules or Dominoes that are being bolted together as I go. Each one has its own legs with temporary casters on each so the whole thing can be rolled around some to reach until finished, at which time it will then be rolled against the room walls and leveled off the casters. You could do the same thing. My purpose in this construction method was two fold: It is easy construction, and when I die, it will be easy to dissmantle to clear the room for her.

[ 05 May 2001: Message edited by: watash ]

 

A very good article on domino construction can be found in the 1999 edition of Model Railroad Planning.

 

This is a great message board. I really appreciate the advice here. I think I've decided to model in N scale because I can fit more railroad into a smaller area. I look with some interest in the huge amount of stuff available for HO, but I can either build a smallish HO layout or a reasonable N scale layout. I am interested in the Canadian Pacific railroad (particularly the Crowsnest Pass area), mainly because of geographic proximity. That makes it easier to look at any scenery to model. I've done some reading on it, and it's also an interesting railroad story.

When it comes to what I want to do with a layout, I guess I kind of want to have it all. I am primarily interested in something that's reasonably operations oriented (switching, industry, etc.), but I also want the ability to run trains continuously. The reason for that is that this is something I'd like to do with my son. He's only one right now, but when we've gone into train stores, he's just mesmerized by the trains going around. I think he would probably enjoy continuous running to start with.

I guess I'm looking for a reasonable size plan to begin building, something that would allow for reasonably interesting operations, the ability for some continuous running, but also something that I could expand on.

I'm going to try to hunt dopwn the 99 MRP and I'll look for the Kalmbach small track plans book. I'm curious whether you'd recommend that someone in my situation try to come up with a plan from scratch or follow/modify an existing plan? I started with the idea of doing this from scratch, but the realization that I don't really know what I'm doing is leading me increasingly to consider just finding another plan. Does anyone have any suggestions about good door-sized, 4X8 or other plans?

Wow, this is a jumbled post. I hope it makes sense. I really do appreciate your willingness to entertain these questions and musings.

Harold

 

Harold My 2 cents worth for your situation...

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems you are looking for a smaller layout.Dominoe layouts as such are primarily used for larger around the wall type layouts(modular style).You could use the dominoe theory for building a table size layout ( as mentioned above making 4 2 foot by 4 foot sections to make a 4 foot by 8 foot table) but my opinion is thats sort of overkill unless you cant get a 4x8 sheet of plywood in or out of the room your planning to use. If you can get it in in one piece I would reccomend keeping it that size with one table top type bench work and use the "cookie cutter method" for raising the rails or for scenery.E-mail me for details on cookie cutter style if you are not familiar with it if you like and I can go into more details.

For some good "begginer" layouts in N scale look for a book called 9 N scale layouts. I don't remember the publisher but I know Atlas had a hand in it as all the plans use the ATLAS sectional track. The largest one is 4 x 8 in this book and the other 8 are various sizes.One even calls for being built on a door. These are all "continuous running" type layout but all could in turn be altered to include a little more sidings or what not for additional operation.

Some are quite basic in this book but that largest one has an upper and lower level with double track mains.It also has a small yard and room for a couple of industrial sidings. Has a double bridge and even a small tunnel.On that one you could run 4 trains continuous in a 4 foot by 8 foot space.Like you said in N scale much more railroad in a very small area.

Any other questions just holler.

Later Gents
Greg

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DoctorJ:
I'm curious whether you'd recommend that someone in my situation try to come up with a plan from scratch or follow/modify an existing plan?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I recomment that you follow or modify (only slightly) an existing plan for your first layout. If you try to design your own, you will probably make some design mistakes that will hamper the fun of running the layout - or even worse, you will never be satisfied with your design and thus will never build it

Even better would be to follow a step by step book that goes over every aspect of building a layout. There are several that focus on HO and Kalmbach has one for N scale called "An N Scale Model Railroad that Grows" - I'm not familiar with it, but perhaps someone else here is? Also, "Small Model Railroads You Can Build" has step by step instructions for a door size plan. The other plans are HO but the techniques described are not scale specific.

The reason I recommended a door size plan is that you can get it setup and running in a single weekend. You and your son can find out what you like or don't like about it and go from there. Because you won't have a lot of time and money invested, you won't hesitate to start over if you want a bigger or different layout.

As for availability of N v HO models - I am guessing you aren't visiting the right hobby shops! There is a huge N scale range available today. I don't know Alberta, but maybe someone on trainboard can help DoctorJ find an N scale specialist near him.

 

I can't help with hobby shops in Alberta, but Vancouver, bc... there are two excellent shops with lots of N scale goodies. Many from all over Canada and the US and other parts of the planet purchase from these two stores. I can give you the url of one of them: www.central-hobbies.com but I don't know the other one. The two stores are Central hobbies and Pacific Scale Rail. They both are in the retail director found monthly in the back of Model RailRoader, complete with phone numbers. I have given both of them heck for not including their web site....dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

DoctorJ, most of us have at some time or other learned the best way is to follow an old Proverb: "Keep It Simple Stupid". When we do apply the KISS principle, we have success. I have felt pretty stupid enough times that I wont admit it anymore!HA!

I have a set of Arbour Models N scale track templates. These are colored like track and can be assembled with thumb tacks to fit your space. Mail me your snail mail address off line. (Click on the MAIL icon at the start of this post). You can also use pieces of box flaps, sides etc. cut to size and shape. On a door, or better still a piece of house insulating foam board, tack these in place. It is easy to stand up out of the way when not working on it. When you arrive at what may be a good looking track plan that fits the space, mark around bothsides of these templates, remove then, and lay your track in the marked areas.

Why not lay a loop of track all around the outside of the foam. Lay this on his bed. Hook up your power pack and run a train every few days, while you are planning? This will keep your son's interest, and you will be "Working on the Railroad"! (Dad and I are building a Railroad!!) See? Use the minimum radius curves to start. You will find that at high speed the trains will derail and roll off. To a child, this is great fun and exciting. To you it is scarey and destroying your engines. Have one engine that is your Son's own personal engine. Teach him how to put it on the track correctly, how to run it foreward, and backward. How fast and why to run it slowly. How to back into several cars to couple up. It might be his nature to crash a few times, he is just a child, so I would not turn him loose with an expensive BRASS custom made engine yet, but I wouldn't get upset if he rolls it off the track a few times, he has to learn. There would be a point of pride if you would put a lable on his engine with his name on it too. Now as you two build your empire together, he will learn, and you will have a partner, rather than a problem. This is what my dad did for me, and I remember these things to this day.

It is easy to add turnouts, and more track to make a siding. Later you may want to add another turnout and make a small yard. Maybe add a crane to load and unload things. Do make some roads, so he can play cars when not running trains. There may be other kids who he would enjoy having bring their trains over and run with him. Put a lable on the bottom of each engine and car for identification, so they do not get mixed up, and it saves missunderstandings.

When you decide you want to move something, or put in larger radius curves, it is easy. After you have run awhile, you may wish to start thinking about putting legs on the foam, braceing it with wood underneith, and adding scenery and buildings. It grows. Your son will probably be around five before you get pretty much to the finished stage. In the mean time, you both will have learned a lot. The big point is, you learned a lot TOGETHER, and it will be of value to him. "Things given for free, have no value". If they are thrown away, you can not cry. If your son values His trains, he will take care of them, if not, give him a model airplane or boat.

[ 07 May 2001: Message edited by: watash ]

 

I will vouch for Watash's advise on getting something up and running. BC Rail King is my son and I always used to hear..."Dad, when is the layout going to be up?" So I bought a small layout of 2 ft by 8 ft in N scale (what we are modeling in) which was complete (also came with 11% grade) with structures, engines, cars, and finished landscaping, all for $200. It also had 9 blocks we were always having to throw. This is where I learned to dislike blocks.

Was one of my better investments. It gave me a layout to have lots of opinions on. First the electrical wasn't well done, so I learned electrical connections done properly were just about "THE" thing you needed to prioritize as number one (no fun when company comes over and the layout goes down). Then I learned to love DCC - no blocks. The person who built it designed it for operations, I learned to like operations. He used peco turnouts and I liked them.

The 11% grad wasn't as daunting as it sounds, AND it was on a curve on a 9 inch radius. If you have a large grade, our train gains about two inches in about two feet of track, it doesn't work too badly as the consist is mostly on flat surfaces, except for the part climbing. BUT, it was a location where I learned the importance of easements on a grade, as well as a curve.

The layout was great fun and it bought me time (the DAD when is it going to be ready stopped for about almost two years), as well as teaching me valuable lessons for our larger layout. I needed my son to grow so that he would be able to access a double decker, which is what I have built.

You might want to buy one of those woodland scenic layouts. The track work is too simple and will get boring, but your son will love it. You will learn about construction, landscaping, track laying, structure building, and layout design. Then after you have done an excellent job on this layout and your son is ready to move on...sell it. I guaruntee you a DAD like you will be willing to buy it. You won't recoup all your money, but the difference was the price of all those valuable lessons you learned.

 

Dominoes???? I thought they just made pizza I will add myself to the list to KISS. (man that sounds strange ) I think the best way to start off is build or modify a simple trackplan that 1000s have made, Its a lot eaiser to get answers to things that a lot of people have "been there done that" ...Mike

 

Mike C is making a good point, I feel. To research and get into a specific area/module/dominio may not be the best route for a new modeler to test their skills and determine what he/she wants.

Perhaps, a simple dominio, however, can also accomplish this. For example:

LIRR ISLIP, NY QUICK TOUR - MODELING IT

This was in response to a post on realistic track/industry placement:

Let's look at Islip for example: http://www.nyandw.com/lirrislip.htm

The 1958 schematic was what existed as I walked the tracks in the 1960s to school.

North siding: Grinnell had a dirt path through the woods to this track to get loads from the team track. The freight station was gone in the 1960s. Bayslip had a freight door, spotted a boxcar once.

So 3-4 spots on this track 84 lumber now gets a load now and then (freight house location) and there is a car spotted about 10 times a year on the team track just west of the freight shed location (also gone by 1960's) Bayslip is torn out now paved over and the station has moved to the north side.

South siding: Islip Coal and Feed saw a hopper maybe 1965 or so. But, the siding had 3 locations on it. A small 2 axle diesel would pull the hoppers in/out under the coal bunker behind the fence. See photos: http://www.nyandw.com/islipphotomap.htm

Track overgrown for years. Classic modeling scene.

OK, modeling a single or double track main with two sidings: Freight station, team track with path, plumbing supply, coal & feed, junk yard and lumber/building supply. Hotel (1880+ or so) west of Bayslip sharing commuter parking lot and a railroad station. Transformer area just east of Islip Ave (small 50' x50') item.

Next to Bayslip east a Bakery and a Bar. Across the street General Store, Butcher, see photo above. Gas station just west of station parking lot, east of the coal bunker other side of street.

New station moved to north commuter westbound side. Earlier Islip station(s) on south side as the pre-LIRR South Side Railroad built them to serve the town and Great South Bay summer traffic.

You get the idea. Having written this; it seems a great 10' module/domino/LDE as some might call it.

Regards,
Steve Lynch www.NYandW.com

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yankinoz:
If you are working in N scale, the easiest way to get started is with an interior door. (OK not one that you have now, go to the 'home super duper giant chain store' near you and get a damaged interior door for few bucks.) It is really easy to build an N scale layout on this inexpensive, yet sturdy platform. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a great starting point. It is very sturdy and easy to work with. I have started building my first real layout on a 36" door and couldn't be happier. I am using a layout idea from another website that is aimed at helping beginners get started without biting off more than you can chew (very important). You'd be suprised how much N scale you can fit in this much space. Check out my layout at my website listed below.

 

I tell ya Alan - when it comes to all these new fangled Domino/shelf/modular plans with staging that are all the rage in the US - well lets just say that's how the English have always been building them!

 

There is a difference between domino and modular building, but before I begin discussing it, an example, to illustrate the spirit of dominoes. Woodland scenic is coming out with a series of goodies for the beginner to get up and running faster than they might otherwise. So you can go out and purchase 2% risers and get the book, a electric foam cutter, to build a decent layout on foam. Woodland scenics provides just about everything for you: book, foam products, foam pins to hold their roadbed, foam glue, foam cutters, and scenic systems, as well as fascia made out of foam. It is a "system" that I believe makes it easier to help the newbie.

Now the question is: Is it the best system? I don't think so, but it doesn't claim to be, but it works, it instructs and teaches, instills confidence, and the finished layout can be sold to some insecure father just getting into the hobby latter on....lol. But the most important element is that it is designed around simplicity, so that what seems daunting is more attainable.

Well, dominoes is the same thing. The dominoe is standardized (though people do make some changes). But you have a plan to show you how to build the dominoe benchwork. This plan includes what lumber and size and type, adjustable do hickies for the feet, and the width, height, and lenght set. The electirical is all done the same way, using suit case connectors from for the bus to the feeder wire.

Then there are many different track work "outlines" you can use, in a kind of plug and play, or lego building fashion. You choice your yard design, on more than on dominoe, you chose corner units, end pieces, and with Linda Sands article in MR, a host of styles for different industry switching. Now the biggest criticique is that so far it is and point to point layout design with no continous running, but this could easily change and is not a big deal; in N scale, it is even less of a big deal.

There is no grade designed in, but this would be easy to do, especially using woodland scenic risers. The track is standardized, the throws are hand throws to make wiring simple. You use DCC on the layout, this too keeps the wiring simple as each dominoe is its own electically isolated block anyway.

Because other very experienced designers came up with the various plans, the overall layout is more sophisticated than most newbies could do on their own.

So you can build a dominoe at your work bench, add the electrical and track work, and be running your first train (albeit back and forth on a four foot dominoe) relatively quickly, then you add your second dominoe, etc.

People get turned off because it is point to point and not continuous running, but with the addition of some dominoes designed as end pieces with returning loops, this would be easily resolved. Again in N scale, the end pieces would only need to be three feet wide with a 16 inch radius.

When you move, it is just like any other modular unit, unplug and move. But because what you are using is standardize, when you move to another place, you can expand or reduce what you already own.

Is this layout going to be your final dream layout? Well for some I suspect yes, but for others they will move on to do their own thing. But look at all the lessons they learned in benchwork, track design, electrical, track laying, etc.

Rick Nicholson