I have done some research and it looks like I have come down to three choices that will fit my needs for a starter DCC system. I have narrowed it down to a Digitrax Zephyr, NCE PowerCab, or a MRC Prodigy Express. I think I have ruled out the Zephyr because from what I have read it seems a little more complicated than the other two. I may buy one later on when I am comfortable with what I'm doing but for now I just want something simple and since all 3 of these are cheap I figured I would ask and see what y'all had to say on the matter. If it makes any difference I really like the hand held controller the NCE and MRC options offer.
This is what I can say, DCC is not a complicated as we compel our selves to believe. I avoided DCC for years and recently moved over. Now I wonder why didn't I move earlier. Reason. I did not know what I didn't know. DCC is one of those things that will keep for a long time. My advice to you is map out your long term goal and buy the units accordingly. All DCC units do the same thing, how much they do and how they display it, is what's different. In any case you should look at it long term. This is what I just did. Got a Zephyr,PR3, 2 I-Pod touch and Withrottle app downloaded JMRI and I'm done. The I-pod's cost me 4 hundred or so but 2 wireless cabs would have cost the same so its worth it to me. There are so many other things you can do with a I-pod. I just thought long term and went that route. Take a look at your plan and starts working toward it. Don't buy something just to out grow it. Good luck Inobu
Wow...didn't know there was an app in the app store for this sort of thing. I'll have to look into this for my iPhone.
Along with looking long term, look at which one is most comfortable to use. I am still in the compare phase myself and have looked at the same manufacturers but included the MRC Advance2 and Digitrax Super Chief too. I have gotten to play, albiet only a few minutes on a test track at a store, with the Digitrax and NCE units and found the NCE handheld was better suited for me. The MRC is a mix of the two. What sold me on the NCE was the fact that I could use it with one hand, where the others you almost have to use two to get anything done. The Digitrax and NCE units are much more "expandable" from what I've seen/read. The Zephyr is a fixed point but you can add another throttle fairly easily. The NCE is tethered but is a little more flexible if you need to move around to watch a train plus it also can handle another throttle if needed.
Here is the Withrottle Website. I am using it and it works well if you have your system hooked up to the computer. There are some interface tweaks I'd like to see but overall a good start. One thing to consider about the MRC systems that may or may not be important to you (O.P.) specifically but cut them out for me was their computer support. First they don't support JMRI's Decoder Pro interface and their own software doesn't support Macs. If you think their software will support your needs then fine but if you are looking at using JMRI software or some of the other hardware and software out there you may be a little more limited than others.
That's an interesting thought but I'm a Microsoft loyalist and I love my 120gb Gears of War special edition Zune. Other than that, what is the PR3 and how easy is programming on the Zephyr? I am reading something that says it can get feedback from the decoder to help identify the programming it already has? Is this true or just someone blowing smoke? It seems like it would be a huge advantage to be able to verify programming or get a reading on what its already got in case something doesn't work.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into it although it's not real high on the priority list of 1001 things to do!
Both the Zephyr and SuperChief support CV (Configuration Variable) read-back on the programming track. The Super Empire Builder does not. To me this is an important feature. The Digitrax PR3 is a combined stand-alone programmer and computer to LocoNet interface. If you have Digitrax sound decoders, it supports loading sound files to them (I don't have sound, so I may be not be entirely correct on this). Another option for the LocNet interface is the LocoBuffer-USB from RR-CirKits. As my original system was an Empire Builder (and being frustrated by lack of read-back), I added a Zephyr, LocoBuffer and the JMRI freeware suite, relegating the SEB to slave booster status. So for a newbie, I would heartily recommend the Zephyr. Programming from the built in keypad is straightforward, although a bit tedious. Adding the computer interface and JMRI makes it all super-slick. If you want a hand held, a UT4 throttle connected to the Z will fill the bill, and you could go wireless as well with a UT4D and a UR92 radio interface. Lotsa ways to go, and you don't have to do it all at once.
First I would like to say the information given in this tread is the best I have seen and it has made up my mind for me. You guys have done a very good job of explaining the good and bad points of each. The feedback from the Z is a big item, also for me is computer interface. Just downloaded the JMRI latest version 2.8 and will be looking at the interface possibilities. Having been in the computer field when I was working I will be taking detailed notes and will post what I find in the future. Thanks again for the very good discussion. keep up the good work.:tb-biggrin:biggrin::thumbs_up::ru-smile:
If you will be using Digitrax sound decoders then you can use the PR3 to load sound files, etc as Doug mentioned. It operates as either a computer interface or a programmer. If you are not going to be using Digitrax sound decoders in the near future RR Circuits offers the Locobuffer which is strictly a USB interface and has optical isolation which electrically isolates the computer and layout. The Locobuffer connects to your computer and then using JMRI or other programs you can read and write your CV's both in Programming Only and Programming on the Main mode. (Locobuffer is for a Loconet/Digitrax system.) For most using a computer is probably the easiest method of programming but unless your system comes with an interface built in that will be an extra cost. Most if not all the systems that I know of offer some sort of computer interface. If you can't or don't want to use a computer from what I see on this board and others NCE seems to be tops in ease in programming from the throttle and MRC says they make it easy too but I would defer to others who have actual use of those systems.
I would love to use my laptop to program but if I do it from a computer does that computer have to stay tied into the "loconet" or connected to the layout? I think I have eliminated the NCE option. Im looking at either the Zephyr or the MCR Prodigy Express now. I am trying to find the manuals online. One thing I want to do (and the only real reason I want to run DCC) is run 2 or 3 engines pulling the same train. I would also like to have an Amtrak or my bullet train running if I can find a decoder for it. Anyway, I'm like a deer in the headlights with this stuff. For some reason I just can't seem to grasp the concepts even though I have an electronics background and build PCs for fun. I need something 100% idiot proof to get my feet wet with.
Yes, I think the headlights have a lock on you If you start going down the laptop route then, regardless of how simple people may say it all is, you are making life less simple. Any of the original three systems will satisfy your first post and I believe the Digitrax and NCE will interface fairly easily to a PC later on if you want (someone correct me if that's wrong). They all do consisting, one way or three So for now just get a basic system and learn how it works - plenty of help here on TB. Once you can walk think about running with PC interfaces.
Ok. I think I'm gonna hold off on trying to hook into a computer. It does seem like I would be metaphorically shooting myself in the foot. I had my mind set on the MRC Prodigy Express but I read that I can only control 2 locos at once. Is this true? I would like to be able to control at least 3 if not all 7 (assuming my bullet train can be fitted with a decoder. I'm obsessed with it) of my dcc capable engines. Should I bite the bullet, spend the extra and just get a Zephyr or will one of the others fit my needs/wants? I can live with only 4 locos since that's all I have with decoders lol.
No, that is not true about the Prodigy Express. I have had 3 trains, 6 locomotives, running at the same time while I was running a switcher. So I have had 7 locos, N scale, running at the same time on my layout. You can have up to 25 locos in your recall stack.
Suh-weet!!!! Thank you for that!! I read the manuals and was hoping the Prodigy would work for me. It seems to be the easiest and best beginner setup. I take it you have the express then? Is it able to program on the main track?
Yes, you can program on the main with the Express. I have added an Advanced2 handheld to mine which is an easy upgrade. Just plug it in and reset the Cab addresses. Then you have all of the features that the Advance2 has. You can also upgrade the power supply by sending yours and $25 bucks in and MRC will send you an Advance2 power supply.
I would rule out MRC, especially the Express, and stick with the industry leaders Digitrax and NCE. You will be much happier in the long run with their capabilities, expansion possibilities, etc. If you want something simple, low cost and very easy to use then the NCE Power Cab would be a great choice at about $148. You will really like it. You can write and read back CV's. The Zephyr, at about $160, is a fine unit but without an add-on throttle it's not as much fun to use as the Power Cab. With the Zephyr you have to operate from one fixed location so can't move around to uncouple cars, throw turnouts, etc., and it's not as easy to run more than one loco at a time. Also it only allows 8 functions. The Power Cab has a 7' cord so it gives you some mobility, has a 2-loco recall stack and allows 28 functions. You mention wanting to consist locos together. NCE has really nice consisting features and they are very easy to set up and delete, plus they have the "double ended" consist feature. The really ideal Zephyr set up is when you can add their DT402 throttle. This is a terrific throttle and can do a lot for you. However this gets you up into a little over $300. When the Power Cab is upgraded to the $300 level the two systems become very comparable and their upgrade path after that is comparable Both NCE and Digitrax are wonderful system, but very different from each other. I've used both and like them both very much. Your choice would depend on how you like the two throttles, number of operators on your layout, system power, etc. Computer interfaces for both would be comparable. All in all the Power Cab is easier to learn and use but after you do learn and use Digitrax it's use becomes second nature to you for all of the basic operations. Just remember, someday you will probably want to use the JMRI (Decoder Pro) computer program and you cannot do that with MRC.
Thank you for that post. I saw 2 systems, the Power Cab and the Prodigy on ebay ending soon and so in the last few seconds I was able to snipe the Power Cab for a cool $110 shipped. So, now that I have made my decision (in a rather dartboard random sort of way) I have entered the world of DCC. Wish me luck. Now, I will say thank you again to jwils1 for making me feel better about the decision. I partially had it in my mind that I was going to go for the Power Cab after a visit to the Greeley Freight Station Museum and seeing how well NCE products worked with their MASSIVE layout and talking to the guys who run it. The consensus was that about half have used the Prodigy system in some form or a Digitrax and have all switched over to NCE after running trains at the museum and falling in love with the ease of operation and amount of stuff it can do for being a fairly baseline beginner system. Thanks again guys for your input on helping me decide. Now the only thing is how do I work the damn thing? Just kidding, although I may need help with consists if anyone out there runs a Power Cab.
Wow, pretty civil so far on a vary passionate topic. For ease of use the NCE wins hands down. There are many menus that guide you through the various functions including consisting. With NCE you can carry a drink or a child in one hand and the throttle in the other. How many guys still carry a cheat sheet in one hand and the Digitrax throttle in the other. Both NCE and Digitax have seperately available computer interface modules that are equally effective. Some say the Powercab has to stay plugged into a specific panal and it does but I got around this at first by purchasing a 10' six wire coil cord and can wonder around my entire 15'x17' L shaped layout all viewed from one side. Lets compare consisting on the Digitrac and NCE; (Digitrax users chime in if this is not accurate) NCE, The second to last row on the throttle is dedicated to "consist" Hit "setup" and confirm by hitting "enter" the consist #. It will ask for the lead loco and its dirrection in the consist. It will then ask you for the rear loco and its dirrection in the consist. It will then ask if there are any middle locos and thier dirrection. If none hit enter and done. Digitrax, Click the right throttle knob, enter the loco # and verify the dirrection. Click on the left throttle knob, enter another loco # and match the dirrection to the first. Click the "MU' button and then "+" to add into consist. I forgot how to add a third loco and would need a cheat sheet to figure it out. I think once you have control of the consist you simply use the opposite throttle to gain control of the loco you want to add and hit "MU" and "+". Another issue is the recall stack and the Zephyr is 10 yet the Powercab is only 2. This does not restrict how many locos they can run, the power limits that. A decoder will remember the last command and keep running even though it does not show on any screen and is not assigned a throttle. I have had seven locos, some trains double headed, on my layout with 2% grades for an hour with no shut down. The absolute best way to decide is find a couple groups at a show and tell them your in the middle on this and some folks are quite willing to allow you into thier inner sanctum for a run through. You may be suprised. Either way you will be happy as there is a learning curve on every system, but I like to carry my drink while learning mine. Get off the fence quick as its much funner and quite simple, this DCC stuff.
Congratulations on your first foray into DCC. The PowerCab is a very good staring point. As John stated. The only point that needs to be made is when you have two locos tail to tail, the second loco on the direction prompt requires the direction button pressed to change it from F to R. A two loco consist takes less than 8 seconds to create.
