1. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    You would think that with the economy in the tank and the amount of time it will take to effect repairs, that the STB would want to move a little faster on a decision.
     
  2. Frank Campagna

    Frank Campagna TrainBoard Member

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    This is lightning fast compared to the old ICC. You are right, however, perhaps an emergency service order is called for here.

    Frank
     
  3. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    As I've noted previously, letting this line lay fallow, especially through another winter, is only going to drive up re-start costs....

    Boxcab E50
     
  4. CAPFlyer

    CAPFlyer TrainBoard Member

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    Wow... what can I say, the idiots in the press are continuing to spout, without proper quotation of the source, the lies about what CORP wants to do without any sort of reprecussions.

    Show me where in any proceeding that CORP's abandonment request including anything about scrapping the rail line. Show me anywhere in all of the official and unofficial communications coming from CORP or RA that indicate anything more than them just wanting to get rid of the line however they need to keep from continuing to put money into a black hole that will never make a return.

    I'm sorry, I've said it many times - CORP and RailAmerica went about closing the line in the wrong way, but at the same time the state and shippers are not helping themselves by continuing to employ the media to repeat their lies about why it was done.

    I love how the "Governor" said that they wouldn't give CORP any assistance until the line was reopened and continues along that tact. If he thinks that any company will do something out of their own pocket with the promise of a politician, then he needs to get a mental evaluation. The USAF Museum & Lockheed Retirees believed the City of Fort Worth when they "promised" to build a hangar for the B-36J "City of Fort Worth" that the Lockheed Retirees were restoring. When it was time for the hangar to be built, the City of Fort Worth unanimously voted to not build the hangar. The B-36, the last one built in Fort Worth at the plant where it was restored to near factory condition and named for the city in which it was built, is now in Arizona at the Pima Air & Space Museum. Promising something in the future without a contract or other garuntees that binds them to reimbursing or supporting something is suicide for anyone. That anyone believes that a promise from them is enough (or more importantly that not believing that promise somehow makes a person or company "bad" because of it) is a sad statement of where this country is going.
     
  5. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Wonder how long it was going to take before you piped in. Still taking the side of your employers, I see...............

    You are right in saying CORP pulled this stunt wrong, but your personal attacks on the governor of Oregon do little to add to this debate.

    Of course, you don't live there, most likely never have been there, nor do you have an economic stake in Oregon. So I can understand why you're defending a wrong-headed decision made by executives in a boardroom in Florida. Granted the tunnels need rerpair, but why did it take so long for the rocket scientists at RA to make the call to embargo the line WITHOUT NOTICE? That move essentially put the screws to an area that is already suffering economically. And with CORP wishing to get rid of their line into California, just what exactly will they have left to run?

    I have no desire to run trains for the heck of it, and I would like to see a railroad make a go of it- after all, there is nothing wrong with making a profit. However, it seems more & more that RA is focusing more on the bottom line and less on the areas they serve.

    You have a right to your opinion, but I fear you'll find very few folks that will agree with you, here or on the Yahoo groups (I read the exchange between you and Eric Augatis on the RA forum, and all I'll saw about it is that niether that thread nor Augatis will find a ready home here.)

    As for lies. please, note them here. We'd like to see them.
     
  6. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    This quote leaves me wondering- How much did they invest in that specific line segment?

    Boxcab E50
     
  7. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Which is the reason they're having these difficulties. And, going back through these posts, reading quotes directly attributed to company officials, they also went about acquiring that line the wrong way.

    There may be bluster coming, and forthcoming from politicians. But there's also usually a decent smoke screen raised by the other side.

    I'm wondering if anyone back at RA HQ has suffered a bit because of the situation created? I've seen seemingly lesser situations where those involved were soon seeking a different venue for personal income.

    Boxcab E50
     
  8. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Umm, usually, when one abandons a line, one pulls up the rails and sells stuff for scrap. That's kind of the point. Further, if their intention wasn't to do that, then why not simply sell it to the port directly without going through all this hoopla? The port made it clear they will buy. Why not just sell instead of filing for abandonment?
    I'm not one to blame corporations for wanting to make money, but simple logic defeats your supposition that they weren't going to rip up the line.

    On the contrary, they've managed to get their federal government reps, their state reps and the general population of Oregon, not to mention Rail fans everywhere to see the situation their way. I'd say they've done quite well for themselves via the media. And I think you overstate the inaccuracies of the claims.
    Well, it makes complete sense. They tried to pull a fast one. RA shut down the line and then told the Governor to cough up. That's not operating in Good faith. If it were 150 years ago, there would have been a shoot out.
    Also, why is Governor in quotes? He's duly elected, he is the governor, he can make whatever choices he feels are in the best interests of the state. the implicit insult there doesn't help your weak case.

    All of this is misdirection.
    CORP demanded money from multiple sources before it would fix it's own railroad. That's extortion. The other players were right to say no. They were right to expect CORP to put their money up first.
    And look what happened, CORP dragged their heels and let the railroad sit there getting worse and worse. They made it clear that they had no interest in running that line. If they did, they would have started repairs so they could generate revenue.
     
  9. Ed M

    Ed M Passed away May 2012 In Memoriam

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    From the Trains.Com "Newswire"
    http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=3859

    August 22, 2008

    EUGENE, Ore. - RailAmerica said it's willing to sell all of Central Oregon & Pacific's Coos Bay line if another operator is willing to run the line, the Roseburg (Ore.) News-Review has reported. The move clears way for the Port of Coos Bay to buy the line, assign an operator, and interchange directly with Union Pacific in Eugene.

    RailAmerica, CO&P's owner, tipped its hand at a Surface Transportation Board hearing on the future of the line held yesterday in Eugene. Attorney Terence Hynes, representing the railroad, told the STB the company would sell all of the Coos Bay line if an operator stepped forward.

    Earlier it appeared CO&P wanted to hold onto the line between Eugene and Vaughn, and abandon only west of Vaughn. That would have left a new operator without access to UP at Eugene.

    The Coos Bay line has been under embargo west of Vaughn since last fall owing to deteriorated tunnel conditions. That's left timber shippers in southwestern Oregon without rail service, and many have complained. Oregon Gov. Ted Kulongoski wants the STB to award the branch to the port, who would then presumably find funding to reopen the tunnels and an operator to run trains over the line
     
  10. Burninbob

    Burninbob TrainBoard Member

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    This story just ran on KQEN Radio in Roseburg, Oregon:

    The Surface Transportation Board’s Field Hearing in Eugene last week brought out a lot of testimony about the lack of rail service on the Oregon Coast.
    Most of the testimony focused on a possible cure to the rail problem, let the line be sold to the International Port of Coos Bay.
    STB Chairman Charles Nottingham said the board will consider if the Port has the financial backing to make it happen.
    In its Feeder Line Application the Port stated that it has available 24.5 million dollars to purchase and operate the line. 12.5 million dollar line of credit, 8 million dollars in pending Federal Legislation sponsored by Congressman Peter DeFazio and 4 million dollars from the Oregon Department of Transportation.
    Nottingham noted during the hearing that the STB would like to see additional information on how the Port would operate the rail line.
    Currently the Port is in the middle of discussions with short line railroad operators about the line. So far the Port has not selected an operator for the line, that is expected by the end of October.
    An STB decision on the Central Oregon & Pacific Railroads abandonment application and the Ports forced sale application is expected in the next 30 days.
     
  11. Burninbob

    Burninbob TrainBoard Member

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    Here is a view of last week's STB Eugene Field Hearing from Oregon State Represenative Susan Morgan:


    THE SALEM SCENE

    By Susan Morgan

    Another Rail Update

    Last Thursday, August 21st was an interesting day. As you recall, the Surface Transportation Board (STB) was in Eugene for a field hearing on the Central Oregon & Pacific (CORP) and RailAmerica’s application to abandon the Coos Bay Line, and on the Feeder Line application filed by the Port of Coos Bay.

    The CORP and RA have applied to abandon the line. Federal rail regulation is such that, if they can prove that they are not making money on the line, the owners can choose to tear out all of the tracks, ties, bridges and other physical parts of the line. If the Abandonment application prevails the line can be torn out, the rail and other steel sold for scrap, and the Coos Bay Line will be no more.

    The Feeder Line Application is a process that allows another party (the Port of Coos Bay) to make the case that service can be provided. Its purpose is to try to keep rail lines in operation and prevent abandonment.

    Only two of the three STB Board members attended the meeting, Chair Charles Nottingham and member Douglas Buttrey. The third member, Francis Mulvey, was recovering from injuries sustained in a cycling accident and could not attend. Throughout, Nottingham and Buttrey asked candid and probing questions. It was clear that they were very familiar with the issue. Staffers had shared in an information session prior to the hearing that the issue with the Coos Bay line was the hottest topic the STB was currently dealing with. Chair Nottingham was skilled in running the hearing and did an outstanding job of keeping to the schedule and facilitating the discussion.

    Interestingly enough, no one, with the exception of the CORP and RA, supported the abandonment. The CORP and RA, represented by a Vice President and their attorney, said that they had no intention of retaining ownership the Danebo to Vaughn section of the line, west of Eugene, despite the fact that they did not include it in their abandonment application. This would appear to take the issue around segmentation of the line off the table which is a significant plus in considering the viability of restoring service to the line.

    Speaker after speaker outlined the importance of not breaking up the Coos Bay Line, rejecting the abandonment application, and supporting the Port of Coos Bay’s application to buy the line.

    Jaws dropped in the audience when Board member Buttrey asked Paul Lundberg, the RA Vice-President if, after listening to about half of the testimony, he understood why his company was so disliked. Lundberg replied that he, frankly, did not understand. Buttrey replied that he, himself, had a very clear understanding of why.

    I feel confident that the STB commissioners have a much more comprehensive understanding of the importance of an operating Coos Bay line to the economic, social and ecological well being of the coastal region.
     
  12. Frank Campagna

    Frank Campagna TrainBoard Member

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    Now, I hope the parties can reach a reasonable sale price for the line. I fear the politicians will insist that RA should give it to them for free. Also, that it will suddenly become a "valuable asset" for RA.

    Frank
     
  13. Burninbob

    Burninbob TrainBoard Member

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    STB Filing:

    Roseburg Forest Products has taken the lead along with other shippers in Southern Oregon and Northern California to petition the Surface Transportation Board for alternate rail service.
    The petition was submitted in Washington D.C. just a few hours ago this morning to allow RFP along with Timber Products, Suburban Propane and Yreka Western Railroad to move freight traffic over the Siskiyou’s.
    RFP had moved a large amount of logs from their Anderson mill to the Dillard plant before Central Oregon and Pacific Railroad raised freight rates that we higher that moving product by truck over the Siskiyou’s.
    Timber Products moved veneer processed at their Yreka plant to Grants Pass for additional processing and making into plywood. They were also affected by higher rates to move their product.
    Suburban Propane in Yreka, California were cut off from getting propane in tank cars moved over the Siskiyou’s.
    All of the parties involved have elected to have a Mid Western Railroad Holding Company, Pemian Basin Railway's- Iowa Pacific Holdings -"West Texas & Lubbock Railway" to move their freight over the Siskiyou’s.
    The petition is now undergoing review from the STB before any action can be taken.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2008
  14. John Barnhill

    John Barnhill TrainBoard Member

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    Railroad agrees to give up Eugene section

    Railroad agrees to give up Eugene section
    John Sowell

    [​IMG]

    U.S. Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Eugene, criticizes Central Oregon & Pacific Railroad’s operation of the Coos Bay line during a hearing Thursday before the Surface Transportation Board, while Gov. Ted Kulongoski listens. Behind them, Sen. Floyd Prozanski, House Republican Leader Bruce Hanna and Sen. Jeff Kruse wait their turn to address the board.
    JOHN SOWELL/The News-Review

    [​IMG]
    Paul Lundberg, a RailAmerica vice president, and Central Oregon & Pacific Railroad attorney Terence Hynes address the Surface Transportation Board after federal, state and local officials and shippers criticized the Roseburg-based railroad’s decision to shut down the 111-mile Coos Bay line last September. The officials said the company did everything possible to maintain the service.
    JOHN SOWELL/The News-Review


    EUGENE — Officials with the Central Oregon & Pacific Railroad said Thursday they would give up a 20-mile segment of track west of Eugene if another operator is named to take over the shuttered Coos Bay line.

    Terence Hynes, an attorney for the Roseburg-based railroad, told the federal Surface Transportation Board at a hearing at the Wayne L. Morse Courthouse in Eugene that it wasn’t the company’s intention to hold on to the section — from Vaughn to Danebo — for profitability or to make it harder on another operator taking over the Coos Bay line. He said it was simply to give the railroad a way to continue a connection to CORP’s Siskiyou line at Eugene if the rest of the Coos Bay line was abandoned.

    Critics have blasted the railroad for wanting to keep the section of track, which serves several shippers, as a way to retain profits while making it harder for another entity to take over the other 111 miles of track on the Coos Bay line that was shut down for safety reasons last September.

    “They raise legitimately the question (of) why should you have another railroad in between them and the (Union Pacific) at Eugene. We agree operationally if someone else is going to take over the feeder-line segment it makes perfect sense for them to connect directly with the UP,” Hynes said.

    Gov. Ted Kulongoski led a long list of speakers — including U.S. Rep. Peter DeFazio, seven Oregon legislators, county and city officials and shippers — in urging the Surface Transportation Board to award the rail line to the Oregon International Port of Coos Bay.

    Leading off a six-hour hearing, the governor said the closure of the line between Eugene and Coos Bay has caused “great economic uncertainty” for businesses in southwestern Oregon.

    “RailAmerica must not be allowed to neglect a line, hold communities for ransom for repair and if they don’t pay up, then overprice it and sell it for scrap. This is not fair,” Kulongoski said.

    Two of the STB’s three members, chairman Charles Nottingham and Douglas Buttrey, attended the hearing. The board is based in Washington, D.C., but agreed to come to Oregon because of the wide interest in this issue.

    More than 200 people attended the hearing, which included 48 speakers and lasted six hours.

    A decision is expected to be made on both applications before the end of November.

    DeFazio criticized RailAmerica for failing to make the necessary investments to ensure the continued safe operation of the line during more than 10 years of ownership.

    He said that if the company was serious about continuing operations on the line, it would have worked with shippers to fix the line before shutting it down, what’s known as an “embargo” in railroad circles, without notice.

    “The embargo of the CORP rail line connecting the south coast of Oregon with the Union Pacific mainline here in Eugene has already had a significant impact on the economy of southwest Oregon,” DeFazio said. “I have no doubt the proposed abandonment of the line will have devastating consequences.”

    After nearly three hours of testimony from speakers critical of CORP, Buttrey asked Paul Lundberg, a RailAmerica vice president based in Boca Raton, Fla., to explain the controversy.

    “Have you all figured out yet why these folks out here are so mad at your company?” asked Buttrey, a Tennessee attorney who in the past served as a private consultant in security and biotech and as a corporate lobbyist for Federal Express.

    “To be quite honest with you, no, I haven’t figured that out yet,” Lundberg replied, to murmurs from the audience.

    “I think I’ve figured it out,” Buttrey said.

    Lundberg disputed DeFazio’s characterization that the company neglected the line. For the past several years, CORP invested 28 percent of its gross revenues in infrastructure improvements. The national average, he said, is 13 percent.

    “It’s not a lack of investment in the asset that has caused the problems,” Lundberg said.

    After the line shut down, CORP sought a partnership with the state, the Coos Bay port, shippers and Union Pacific to share in the $23 million cost it said was needed to make repairs and get the line operational again. It also sought a shipping surcharge and an ongoing subsidy from the state.

    Kulongoski at the time said the railroad would have to make the repairs and reopen the line before he would consider providing any financial assistance from the state. The railroad wasn’t willing to do that.

    Shippers have paid up to 15 percent more to ship their wood products by rail since the railroad shut down. Southport Lumber near Coos Bay has frozen wages and shelved worker incentives after facing increased costs of $70,000 per month, company president Jason Smith said.

    Allyn Ford, president of Roseburg Forest Products, said there will be a shortage of trucks available when the housing market recovers and there’s increased demand for wood products.

    Fred Jacquot, the manager of American Bridge’s plant on Bolon Island outside Reedsport, said his company chose the site because it had an existing rail line.

    Since opening the plant in 2003, American Bridge has sold $28 million in highway, railroad and pedestrian bridges for projects in the West and Midwest, he said. Many of the 80 workers hired by the company, which projects a $2.3 million payroll this year, were displaced timber workers, he said.

    American Bridge relied on rail service to deliver raw materials to its plant and to deliver finished products to project locations.

    “This embargo has seriously impacted our operations, resulting in both direct and indirect costs” Jacquot said.

    By rail, the company paid 5.8 cents per pound to have raw materials delivered. Trucking those same materials after unloading from rail cars in Portland now costs 9 cents per pound, he said.

    You can reach reporter John Sowell at 957-4209 or by e-mail at jsowell@nrtoday.com.
     
  15. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Looks like RA is on a very hot seat- and our local RA apologist has suddenly become silent.

    Again, if CORP stops operating over the Siskiyous and sells off the line to Coos Bay, what do they have left to operate?
     
  16. Burninbob

    Burninbob TrainBoard Member

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    The Coos-Siskiyou Shipper Coalition will hold a press conference today to announce that some of their members, Roseburg Forest Products & Timber Products have filed a petition with the STB for alternative rail service.
    The press conference will be held at the Siskiyou County Economic Development Office, 1512 S. Oregon Street in Yreka, California at 9AM.
    Members of the Coalition and members of the railroads will be at the conference:
    Eric Voss from Timber Products, Rich Klug from Roseburg Forest Products, Michael Kobseff from the Siskiyou County Supervisors, Tonya Dowse from the Siskiyou County Economic Development, Ed Ellis President of Iowa Pacific Holdings and "West Texas & Lubbock Railway" and Court Hammond from the Yreka Western Railroad.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2008
  17. Ironhorseman

    Ironhorseman April, 2018 Staff Member In Memoriam

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    Dang, Bob!!! I wish I had read this earlier, (it's now 8:33 AM). I'd of liked to have attended this one!

    Thanks for the information though. :)
     
  18. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I'd love to have heard those murmurs.

    Many others have as well.

    Boxcab E50
     
  19. CAPFlyer

    CAPFlyer TrainBoard Member

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    Call me an apologist if you like. If you do, you continue to ignore multiple posts where I pointed out that I don't agree with the way it was gone about. At the same time, continuing to just lap up the unbridled propaganda that is being published by the so-called "media" is worse. I do understand why some are upset that CORP closed the line, and most especially the way in which they went about it, however I go back again - much of the "facts" being presented are not facts at all. They state that CORP didn't ask for help before embargoing the line - not true. Several statements by OrDOT officials and CORP (that have been confirmed) state otherwise, especially in the area of CORP attempting to work with the state prior to closeure of the line to get monies to help pay for the improvements. How about the maintenance issue? The media continues to quote (without any confirmation) that CORP did not maintain the track, yet CORP has made public the maintenance outlay that was going to maintaining their track on a yearly basis and it is well in excess of what ANY Class 1 puts up in terms of percentage of total revenue.

    I'll say it one last time - you can be mad at CORP for closing the line the way they did, but if you want to believe that they did so to be a bully, then maybe you want to go back to school and take real economics classes because had it not been done, there wouldn't be any railroad.
     
  20. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    So-called "media"? What do you want- nice, positive pro-business news? First you question the legitimacy of the governor of Oregon, then you chew on the media. Way to build support for your side there.

    Bottom line here is that RA has shot itself in the foot in this case, and the ignorant comment made by Mr. Lunderg didn't make things any better. Perhaps RA's brass need to get out of Florida more often.

    Since you're lecturing us on economics, need I remind you that I fully understand that a railroad company is in business to offer a service, that service being transportation of goods. And to at the very least make enough revenue to cover expenses. Did RA have a clue as to the condition of the tunnels on the Coos Bay line before they took over, or did they just forge ahead thinking they would cross that bridge when they got to it? Well, they're at the bridge, and damned if they didn't refuse to cross.

    Bottom line here is that RailAmerica is not winning friends, and are in the process of losing what few friends they have in Oregon.
     

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