Greetings. I am scheduled for a Conductor Trainee test/interview on this coming Wednesday. In doing some research, I came across this horror story, and am wondering how true it is? rochelletrainpark.com So you say you want to work for the Railroad? I know I can pass any testing, and I interview reasonably well, but at this point I am unsure if I should even go! Bit of background, working for a state DOT as a civil engineer, 30% of the workforce is getting laid off in September, I am one of them. I do not have the formal education / licenses many of my coworkers do, so the chances of me staying in the field on the civilian side are minimal. Thanks for the hopefully timely posts!
I would say that certain parts of it is a bit exaggerated. I interviewed with CSX a couple times and their process is similar. The riff-raff get weeded out quickly, if they make it through the interviews and testing they will soon enough be shown the door for some other reason.
G& OM is correct. There is a good deal of hyperbole in the writers discourse. You can read my comments in the writers blog. You could very well earn that $67K+ in your first year with overtime. What the writer failed to mention is that you will be paid a student stipend during your training and you are on a 60(or is it 90 now?)day probation period. That is not unusual in ANY industry. Railroading is not a family oriented job, but you can have a fairly normal family and social life once you learn the "ins and outs" of the business and are able to hold a regular job. Yes you will probably be furloughed at least once during your railroad career. It is a demanding and sometimes demeaning job. It is dangerous,it can be difficult and taxing. You are not going to have "gang-bangers" operating trains anywhere. The HR people are trying to weed out people who are just looking for an easy way to earn good money. The money railroaders earn is governed by union contract, that is except for exempt and non-union people(mostly management). What was failed to be mentioned is the comprehensive and,YES,exhausting training you will be given. You will be receive classroom instruction in complicated safety, operating and mechanical rules, you will receive "hands-on' practical training in the yards and on trains in the actual,physical operation of trains and locomotives. When your training period is complete,you will be required to take a comprehensive written exam on the rules and practices you have been studying. You MUST receive a score of 90% or greater to pass the exam. If you fail on the first try, you will be give a second chance to take the exam. If you fail the second time,you will NOT be hired. Just recently a regulation went into effect requiring conductors to be certified in their craft. Engineers have been required to be certified for a number of years. You will be required to take recertification exams periodically. Again you must score the required percentile(either on the 1st or 2nd try) or lose your job. If you enter the engineers program and are successfully promoted to engineer,you must take recertification exams for engineer AND conductor and pass them BOTH or lose your job. If you are a promoted engineer and fail to pass the re-cert, you CANNOT revert to your conductor status. No,my good man, you wont find ANY gang-bangers or slackers wanting to qualify for railroad jobs! You will find a great many former military people, married men and women,with families to raise, or many people like myself who worked at exhausting jobs for little money but were willing to work hard for a living wage. The writer also pokes great fun at the HR people asking the interviewee if they lied or were less than honest on their resume. Well sir, I can tell you this...the railroad was the ONLY employer I ever had who wanted to see my DD-214(proof of military service) or my college grade transcripts. They fully vetted me and checked out EVERYTHING on my C.V.!!!! So in conclusion, if you want a strictly 9-5 job,with weekends and holidays off all the time, dont want to deal with nasty weather or get your clothes dirty and not worry about having to go to work at an inconvenient time,by all means work somewhere else. Railroading is a professional AND a profitable operation. It is run by people who are well trained and dedicated to their jobs and who know the demands of their employer. Trains are not a place for the faint of heart or "just get by" type of person. Good luck in your career choice! I was in mine!
#1: If they tell you to be there at 8:00am, you be there at 7:30 for that testing and interview. You'll get a little chuckle out of what happens to the peeps that show up at 8:01. #2: Yes, this is a 24hr a day job and until you can hold a regular job(it might be a long time before you can hold something), you get the pleasure of living with and by your phone for those 24hrs EVERY DAY. Then, after your phone rings, go look out the window, watch the days weather report and dress accordingly. So if your phone rings at 2am to be there at 4am, have proper clothes for 5pm (prepare for limbo time for you railroaders out there) or the next day if you're on the road. Honestly, I didn't read the story but I saw mention of working with gang bangers and other undesirables. It's a job, there's going to be people you don't like and in this industry, others you don't trust. You can learn to sorta work with the one's you don't trust and make due with the ones you don't like. In all reality, that gang banger might be the funniest guy you get to work with and you look forward to getting to work with them. The only reason you should worry about working with anyone out here is if YOU can't do YOUR job right. The Benefits are well worth it in the long run, give it a try and hang in there in the early bad times. If you don't like it, you can always give management a try too.
I also interviewed with a regional "short-line" back in the Spring of 2009 that was indirectly 2/3rds owned by CSX through stockholdings. The interview process was a bit different. The first round of interviews consisted of a basic math, reading comprehension and brief eye test (checking for color blindness). After that I interviewed with three gentlemen; The railroad's General Manager, the Trainmaster and their DSLE (Designated Senior Locomotive Engineer), IIRC. I received a call about 3 days later from a secretary asking me to come back for a second interview. The second interview was a little more in depth about my backround and they allowed time for me to ask questions. They liked that I asked questions about the probationary period, potential for advancement and etc. They laid out their Conductor Trainee program as 90 days at an hourly rate of $12 per hour and no benefits. During that time I was required to have at least 40 hours per week and no missed calls. I would be flown to Georgia for training at company expense. After 90 days, I would be on the extra board as a Conductor and earn 85% of the full salary which was $160 per day. I believe every year on the job I earned 5% at a time. They were very honest, personable and friendly folk. However, this was a 180-mile shortline with like 75 total employees. I will probably apply again the next time a recruiting session is advertised again.
Thanks Thanks for sharing your experiences and advice guys. I've put together a folder with all documents I think they could possibly ask for, and I shall make sure I am there plenty early. Any other tips you guys have for me? Are furloughs really all that common? One thing I would dread would be to go through the training, passing the test, and then being let go because they really didn't need that many people at the time. Usually, how many years until one has somewhat steady hours or a steady location? How many years as a conductor before one can advance to a more prestigious position (like engineer and ?) I don't know too terribly much about railroading. How does the "board" work?
OK, that guy from the blog doesn't need to be anywhere near a railroad. The railroad is a good job, as long as you have a tolerance for BS. 10 years has taught me that. A lot of time away from home(on the road), you'll have to learn to sleep when you can, not when you want to. I don't encounter much of the weather that some have, but like said, be prepared for anything. Not trying to scare you off, but you need to know what to expect. Furloughs depend on where you are, what traffic is like, what the economy is like, etc... lots of variables. I was cut off from my home terminal for 10 months my first year and 4 months my second. I spent most of that time at other terminals. Guys that hired out 2-3 years after me have never been cut off. Promotion time also has a lot of variables. I took my Engineer promotion 4 years after I hired out, while guys promoted a month before me had 6-7 years in. Out in "coal country," promotion can occur within a year. Boards are a whole 'nother animal. Extra boards are generally "first in, first out" and usually have a guarantee of some sort. Pool boards usually stay in turn, but this can differ between local agreements. Assigned yard jobs, locals and road switchers have set start times and assigned days off. If you don't like being on call, bid one in, might go on duty at midnight, but you'll be home every day. Pay rates vary between jobs. Everything is based on miles, the higher the mileage, the higher the pay per shift. The rate per mile depends on the class of service and what position you are working. Yard service has the highest rate per mile, but the mileage paid is lower than any other job. It's been said, the hardest part about railroading is figuring out how you get paid. Not only do you have your base pay, you have meal claims, car mileage in some cases, penalty claims for contract violations. Some of this is figured automatically when you fill out your time slip. Out of time for now, but I'll try to get into rules and testing later. Good luck:tb-wink:
The hub I am applying to work out of is Spokane, WA if that helps any. When you are working out of a different hub, do they provide lodging, or must on hotel it on their own dime and/or find a apartment? I am pretty sure my wife would violently protest me being gone months at a time. Does one usually have at least 40 hours a week? Is it the base pay that increases for the 2nd and 3rd year while the mileage pay stays the same?
==================================================================== Gotta say HI! to me buddy Joe Gartman. Sounds like they been treatin' you OK! You'll probably have enough work out of Spokane, but Joe would have a better idea of that. I worked in a couple of different terminals that normally had LOADS of work(Chicago[Eola,Aurora] and Galesburg). You pretty much work where the carrier wants you to work. They will pick up your lodging for at least a short period of time if they are asking for volunteers to cover a sudden business upturn or personnel shortage. That doesn't happen often. I worked out of Galesburg for only 3 months and would have stayed longer were it not for personal family problems. It is taxing on family relationships! I was never furloughed but the reason I went to Galesburg(along with a bunch of my buddies) was to avoid being cut-off in the Chicago District. As for number of hours, your norm will be 60- 80(figure at least 12hrs/day). A 40 hr week is a switch engine being held by a hogger with 40yrs seniority and is ready to retire. There are probably only 1 or 2 of those on the whole of BNSF! The mileage for the wages is static. Those are negotiated by contract. The percentages are taken on the mileage. I think the agreement still stands that if you work as a conductor or switch foreman on a job(not brakeman or helper) you get 100% pay regardless of your wage tier. In Chicago we had lots of different types of train operations, hump yard,flat switching,road switchers, long distance inter-divisional freight pools, commuter trains,work trains. After almost 2 years I was pretty much able to hold a 2nd shift job in East Yard at Eola IL as a switchman(helper). Then I tried suburban service and after bouncing around from job to job, I was able to hold a day shift commuter train as a brakeman and I had just about 5 years seniority. Then I went thru the engineers program when I had almost 6yrs seniority. I completed my training and was promoted but set back on the ground immediately, where I was until just prior to my retiring when I was assigned to the passenger engineers extra board. By that time the "die had been cast", I had made my decision to retire already and I took sick leave due to a knee injury. I never returned to work and retired. The key as Joe stated is to bid each and every regular assignment there is. It may not be the best job, but the hours are regular and you'll be home every day and you can plan your life around the hours. Just an aside, bid every job you can even if you think your seniority cant hold it. Every rail,myself included, will tell you stories about good jobs that went to less senior people because we thought our seniority wouldn't get the job!!! Charlie
Last question then... If they say a new hire earns around 800 per week, that is a 60-80 hour week? And since pay is by the mile, there is no overtime?
Student pay is flat rate, no meals, no overtime. Spokane being ex-BN territory, things may be different than what I am used to(ex-ATSF Coast Lines). Hard to say how many hours, depends on the job you're assigned to. When you are on your own, overtime will come into effect, 100 mile yard job will be after 8 hours, road is different as you have to run your miles off before you start overtime. Base mileage(or basic day) is 130 miles with overtime after 8, if your district is over 130 miles, you have to run off those miles in order to collect overtime, which could push it back several hours. My district is 142 miles and overtime starts around 9 hours. A yard job is advertised for 8 hours, but you might only work 5-6 hours(same pay) or you might work all 12. Hey Charlie, how ya doing?
BTW, get in contact with "Kevin M" here on the board, he is up around there somewhere and would be able to answer a lot of your questions regarding ex-BN pay rates and training, etc...
==================================================================== During your probation period you are on a student rate. IIRC you only get O.T. after 12hrs(and that would only be tow-in time-you wont be performing service). The specifics will be stated in your employment contract. Your actual "scheduled" salary will not take effect until your probationary period is over and you are marked-up to a job or board. Charlie
==================================================================== Doin' good Joe! I gotta chat-up my budz here in Chicago. METRA has a new chairman and he sounds like a real hard-nose. METRA has had hot pants for years over the BNSF full crew agreement and it sounds like he may be out to reduce that size. What the parade of clowns at METRA all fail to realize is that the BNSF consistently has the highest fare-box recovery of all the lines. With 3 trainmen collecting fares and tickets it is pretty difficult for the fare-dodgers to free ride. We have had people from the L.A. Commuter authority come to Chicago in the past to see how we do it. L.A. is an automated fare collection system and I have heard that they have above a 20% rate of fare avoidance. That is a LOT of money! What the guys here have to realize is that they cannot cut corners and let a few fares "slide by" while they are breathing heavily on some sweet thing in the vestibule or decide that they want to deadhead more cars than the norm when things seem to be a bit slow in the evenings. But history shows that it takes the loss of slots and jobs before they realize that something better be changed. When I first started, we had all sorts of road-switcher jobs, but the crews were "draggin' the anchor" and running 12 & tow every day, even when the work load didn't justify it. So naturally the company cut a bunch of jobs and a bunch of guys went looking for homes! The ones who were able to work the road switchers now discovered that they did indeed have 12hrs of work every day. AND they better be able to justify every minute of their claim. No more extended "station work" entries on the delay reports! Whyizit that some guys need a 2x4 up the side of their head to realize what is happening??? Charlie
Update So, I spent 8 hours over at the hotel with 50 other folks going through the process. No gang-bangers... ~47 people were in a collared shirt and slacks. No scare tactics, though they definitely emphasized the life changing work schedule and lack of a life. The tests.. well, it was a bit space monkeyish, no math or anything. Just looking up stuff in a chart, or repeating what was written in a paragraph. The personality questions were very repetitive, but that's for the psycho analysis so I do understand. Interview went well I believe. Nobody left the whole time, and they did not post the test pass/fail list before my interview was over so I will just have to find out in a week or three. My wife has pretty much told me not to take the job, so at least it will be good practice for the future. Thanks for the information folks, I'm in your debt.
Well.... you're the one who has to live with your missus. Mine told me to follow my dream. My kids were in college so there were no real "parenting" type things that we needed to do. I was able to get the time off I needed for their weddings. My wife was still working and she was a school administrator and gone from home quite literally from dawn to dusk and sometimes longer. There were times where we didn't see each other for days at a time due to our work situation. Everyones situation is different, only you can decide what is best for yourself. Just hope that your decision doesn't ever come back to bite your arse. That is how I felt about it, I dont know that I could ever justify to myself having let the opportunity to go railroading pass me by. I answered that opportunity knock and that has made the world of difference in my life. But it isn't the same for everyone. The job I was holding hadn't given me a pay raise in over 3 years, the headhunters I was working with kept telling me that I should be making more money but they couldn't seem to find that job for me. I would go to work tired and return home exhausted. I would ride the crowded "L" home in the evening so tired that I would fall asleep STANDING UP! It is quite a sensation to wake up while collapsing to the floor, it is even more embarassing to have all the other people staring at you wondering what has happened! Whatever career choice you make, I wish you sucess and happiness! Charlie
