I would like to operate a realistic Nscale coal train powered by SP/DRGW on the early 90' (from 1990 to 1997) on the Colorado lines (Soldier Summit or Tenessee Pass, not determined yet). As ffar as I know, Rio Grande mostly operated black DRGW 100-ton 3 bay hoppers and DRGW Quad hoppers, as well as Thrall 50' hi-side gondolas (with "Rio Grande Coaliner" letterings, for exemple. What about Blue ends ? red ends ? yellow ends ?). But I don't know how those cars can be mixed in the same coal train. I have some books about the Rio Grande (Secret places Vol 1 and 2), but no picture focuses on the way coal hoppers are assembled on those heavy coal trains. Can you help me to determine the proper consist of coal hoppers to be used (hopper type and reported marks) ? The informative link below gives some information about coal trains rolling on the Rio Grande system, however as there is no picture, I don't know which coal hoppers were used. http://www.carrtracks.com/drgw.htm Thank you for the information (pictures, explaination, books, weblinks) you can provide. Regards, Jean-Edouard
Dale Sander's book Rio Grande: Scenic Line of the World focussed on DRGW operations in the 80s and early 90s. If you can get that book, it would be a good source of prototype info.
For the 90's, what you want are the Trainworx 4 bay 100t hoppers. Rio Grande had 1000s and they far outnumbered the 3 bays by then. The Thrall Hisides were gone by then too, and I think there were only 4 in the Coaliner Scheme. http://www.wic.net/trainworx/rg.htm www.railarc.org and search for DRGW - look for the 12000, 16000 & 19000 series numbers. Rio Grande Color Guide to Freight & Passenger Equipment by Morning Sun Publications has a few photos too.
Definitely purchase as many Trainworx 100-ton quad hoppers as you can while they're available - they're beautiful models. Many of the coal trains operated on the Grande during the period you're modeling were made up of them, exclusively. (BTW, here's a link to the Grande's hopper roster.) By the time you're modeling, though, unit trains were becoming more common, and many of these were made up of cars owned by the railroad's customers, such as power plants. Unit trains really took off after 1970s U.S. Federal environmental regulations required utilities to use the type of low-sulfer coal that is plentiful in Colorado and Utah. On rotary-dump cars, the colored end marks the end of the car that is equipped with the rotary coupler. Note that, for the rotary dump operation to work, all the cars in the train have to be oriented the same way. Most rotary dump coal cars are BethGon Coalporters (made by Johnston America), which were first made available (in a steel version) in 1978; sales rocketed after the company introduced a new, lightweight aluminum version in 1986. Here's a timeline. Here's a nifty picture of a rotary dumper in operation (from a Univ. of Wyoming web site): Although rotary dump facilities allowed large customers to realize major economies, not all unit trains are made up of rotary-dump cars. For example, CSUX (which is on the symbol list) is the reporting mark for the Colorado Springs Department of Utilities (CSDU); the CSUX unit train was a hallmark of Rio Grande operations in Colorado from 1979 to 2000. CSDU owned more than 100 Ortner 5-bay rapid discharge hopper cars. (Red Caboose makes an N scale model of these cars with CSUX reporting marks.) To figure out what kind of coal cars customers owned, you can search for information using the reporting marks referenced in the the list of D&RGW/SP coal train symbols that you referenced, and then search for photographs. Here's a really nice photograph (by Matt Hannes) of a CCTX unit train of Coalporters pulled by SP units in Colorado (Oct, 1999): The following are examples from the symbol list of unit trains composed exclusively of customer-owned cars: 737 from BN train U57 at Denver to Price River Coal at Castle Gate, UT with 100 empty cars marked AEPX 738 from Price River Coal at Castle Gate, UT to Denver then via BN to Metropolis, IL for Indiana Michigan Electric with 100 loaded cars marked AEPX. 755 from ATSF train 4432 at Pueblo to Westmoreland Coal at Converse, CO with 100 empty cars marked NORX. 763 from Sunnyside, UT to Provo then via UP and ATSF to Kaiser Steel at Fontana, CA. (This was, I believe, the first unit train introduced in the US. It operated initially with rotary-dump Coal Liner cars.) So, I think you could run the following prototypically: * 100% D&RGW 100-ton quad hoppers (Trainworx) * Customer-owned unit trains with 100% BethGon Coalporters (such as the AEPX cars manufactured by LBF). Some of these trains would include cars with two or more reporting marks because they're a mix of customer-owned and leased cars. Power companies often leased older-generation cars after replacing them with newer, lighter models. * Trains with a mix of D&RGW and interchange line quad hoppers (UP, MP) As for models of Coalporters with the reporting marks mentioned on the symbol list, I would recommend LBF -- although they're pricey, they come with Micro-Trains trucks and couplers. AEPX PSCX (Public Service of Colorado) I'd say you could run unit trains of any of these prototypically. --Bryan
Another good reference site is the Rio Grande modeling and historical society: http://www.drgw.org/data/trains/coal.htm You guys have great info, and that shot of the coalie is at Tunnel 29, FWIW.. The 'coalliner' train is a hi-side gon train of UP and DRGW cars. The DRGW cars were a whopping 5-car order, based on mileage from the mine near Helper, UT, to Fontana CA. That rain ran to Kaiser steel over Soldier summit with solid sets of Grande and UP SD45's in the train's infancy... D&RGW had 2795 'quads', only a hundred or so of the 3-bay cars. They also ran trains of power-company owned cars, too. PSCX, CCTX, etc. Also AEPX, jointly run with BN; NORX jointly with ATSF, etc.
That photo is just Grande! Very nice photo--the Grande SD45's were ordered specifically for coal service, and the 'Billboard' scheme was developed especially for the Kaiser trains. It was thought to bring better advertising while the engines did their duty off Grande' rails. They were also equipped, IIRC, with UP's cab signal system, to be lead qualified. I have spent lots of time of former Grande rails, would you like to see modern-day Moffat Route shots of coal trains? It's amazing how many older cars still ply the rails as the new aluminum cars. Teaser: Old hi-side steel gons mingle with bathtub gons at old Tunnel 17:
Bryan is on-target for later 80's and 90's trains with those cars, however, these are also prototypical for this era: (Wig-Wag, LLC photos, Athearn products coming soon this fall)
YES! Also, I was indeed remiss in not mentioning the Athearn Thrall gons... and they make coalporters, too-- but I had used up my four-photo maximum for that post... I have 30 of Athearn's 70-ton 3-bay D&RGW coal hoppers, which are also very nice and make a nifty train. I've equipped them with Micro-Trains trucks and couplers... which added nearly $100 to the cost. Here's a pic: I think some of these would have still been in service even in the 90s. Here's the Athearn AEPX coalporter. This would definitely be prototypical for the period we're discussing: --Bryan
Tunnel 14, and westbound empties at South Draw: Tunnel 13, and EB loads, this one appears to have an old hi-side gon in the train as well: A gang of old Quads at Tunnel 2 westbound: AEPX empties mixed in with other leased cars at Tunnel 2:
CNW triple and DRGW quad at Tunnel 7 eastbound with more black diamonds: Aluminum bathtub gons at Tunnel 27 eastbound: Older quads and triples at Tunnel 25: CTRN quads are prevalent nowadays, as shown by another EB load west of Rollinsville:
Check the unmolested Espee AC trailing in this shot east of bridge 45.1 with a DEEX twin tub gon first out: Quads & triples thunder west at East Portal:
Some excellent info in this thread. Can anybody say what the reporting marks are for the second coal car (red/silver) in the shot at T2? Paul
I'm sure someone will know for sure--I don't--but if I was a betting man I'd say CEFX. GREAT post, and superb photographs! Are any of the "quads" trains pictured the following? CCVTY - CTYCV (Coverse Mine, CO. - Tyler, TX.) CEYHM - CHMEY (Energy Mine, CO. - Midlothian, TX.) CAIEW - CEWAI (Axial Mine, CO. - Englewood, TX.) These are BNSF symbols I guess, not sure what they're called on the UP. I am modeling one of these on my BNSF-era "FW&D" layout. I have hundreds of pictures of the cars on these trains so I can post a few if anyone is interested. Some aren't great pics, mostly to document the train itself and get the right mix of roadnames.
Thanks, Doug! What exactly are you asking? I really don't know train symbols, and never recorded them. Not even sure how to get them!
Thank you all for your information. I am interested to see more of your pics of coal hoppers hauled by SP/DRGW, especially focusing on the coal hoppers themselves. Are CTRN black with white end quad hoppers only used all together in a unit train, or can we realistically operate them with a mixture of DRGW quad hoppers ? Is that correct that such CTRN quad hoppers appeared in 1996, and are operated by UP? I have never seen any picture of the DRGW Thrall Hiside gon with Blue end (to be realesed by Athearn)? In which period were they operated in this colors? were they used in one unit train or are they supposed to be be mixed with other type of coal hoppers ? Should I operate 80 cars of ythose ? Same question about the NORX Thrall Hiside gon with Yellow end (also to be realesed by Athearn)? Your experience is valuable... Jean-Edouard Heller
Hmm, glad I'm not a betting man! :teeth: Hemi, I just was curious more than anything. Thought it would be cool to see one of the Colorado trains on the other end. I've seen plenty of the Wyoming PRB trains. Regarding trains symbols...it helps to know a dispatcher or other RR employee. :zip: Well, I actually saw a couple of DRGW coal trains on the Craig branch when I was in Junior High (1986). But I don't think they were destined for Texas.
