Build a Sn3.5 1870's 4-4-0

hminky Aug 28, 2018

  1. hminky

    hminky TrainBoard Member

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    Have a "what-I-did" delving into the conversion of a new tooling oldtime H0 Bachmann 4-4-0 into an early Sn3.5 4-4-0.

    http://www.chainsawjunction.com/sn3_5/locomotives/4-4-0/

    [​IMG]

    Later web articles will detail and paint the loco.

    Just in primer now as we need to build some cars and plan some layout.

    Thank you if you visit
    Harold
     
  2. hminky

    hminky TrainBoard Member

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    How does it stack up against another Sn3.5 locomotive?

    Found my "HO" Ken Kidder mogul that I got as a kid for Christmas, now a basket case. It is a larger "next gen" 1880's loco.

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, it is an Sn3.5 Japanese 7100 class locomotive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JGR_Class_7100

    [​IMG]

    Harold
     
  3. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    The model as is, is a fair aproximation of this colorado 4-4-0 for those into colorado railways.

    http://www.ross-crain.com/rr_dsp8a-260D&B.htm

    A question about the model you have. The original releases of these locos were by rivarossi. I don't know if they were built by the yugoslavian manufacturer for RR. So are these Bachman ones the same molds, or their own version?

    Also, how is the drive?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  4. hminky

    hminky TrainBoard Member

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    The Colorado locomotives have a longer rigid wheel base and slightly bigger.

    The Bachmann 4-4-0's have nothing to do with the Rivarossi 4-4-0's which were OO scale running on HO track.

    The Bachmann's are an updated version of their old crappy tender drive 4-4-0.

    The update is a better detailed model with a can motor in the loco and factory sound.

    The Bachmann's run well but run great if the tender pickup is improved as referenced in the article.



    Why don't I just model HO? Because am just not an HO scaler and narrow gauger.

    When I look at that video I imagine the scene as narrow gauge.

    Harold
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  5. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    The DSP&P seems to be about right. I will have to take this photo and see how it matches up to other models.

    [​IMG]

    As with all of this style of modeling in this scale, one can get really OCD and get things dead on. Or, one can simply take the Aproximo! appraach and get something that evokes the feeling of the loco in question. Since DSP&P only had one of these and it seems no one can find plans, not to mention there are very few photos, the rivet tally crew can be kept at bay. ;)
     
  6. hminky

    hminky TrainBoard Member

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    You would need to use a larger locomotive like the MDC/Roundhouse/Athearn 4-4-0 or 2-6-0.

    [​IMG]

    Those are 1/72 scale figures about six inches shorter than S Scale.

    Visit:

    http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1905/4-4-0_merge/

    That DSP&P is "next gen" narrow gauge and probably has a 7 or 7-1/2 foot rigid wheelbase.

    My Bachmann conversion has a six.

    Rivets need to be counted but not all other wise modeling goes into caricature. Evoking a feeling never works well. I always find some prototype example to base my modeling

    Harold
     
  7. hminky

    hminky TrainBoard Member

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    Scaling the DSP&P drawing to S Scale using the known driver diameter of 44" and comparing it to our early 4-4-0 there is a large difference.

    [​IMG]

    Doing a known Colorado railroad in Sn3.5 never looks right, the track gauge will always look hinky.

    The Colorado equipment of that era is un-available, my HO conversions are too small and the PBL equipment is too large. Everything would have to be scratchbuilt.

    On30 being used as three foot gauge will always look out of whack.

    Harold
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  8. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    Ah, so what you are really saying, is this scale does not work as a narrow gauge scale for a lot of modelers then. It's more of a quaint oddity.
     
  9. hminky

    hminky TrainBoard Member

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    No, Sn3.5 doesn't really work for Colorado or anything other than the early days of narrow gauge.

    Narrow gauge collapsed about 1885 but there are plenty of prototypes that could have been 42" gauge.

    [​IMG]

    Tap Lines has a few that could logically built as 3.5' narrow gauge.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.taplines.net/fs/fs.html

    The 1876 book referenced on my website explains early narrow gauge and lists railroads.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=nJUpAAAAYAAJ&dq=narrow+gauge&pg=PA1&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=true

    Sn3.5 just requires a little more thought than buying some equipment from PBL or Blackstone.

    Nothing wrong with being a "quaint oddity", all about the fun.

    Harold
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  10. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    Ok, I guess the HO models would be too small for prototype, but one could do fantasy models.

    I realize you are trying to do 3.5, but I am interested in 3'. As has been proven, one can do 2' in 35mm scale, but that's just so huge.

    Then again, now that I am taking things apart, how hard would it be to put some bigger drivers on a model? Sourcing is always the issue of course.

    But also, there are no plans for a 3 foot DSP&P 4-4-0 and no one is allowed to criticize my models anyway, or they get kicked out of the train room. :p
     
  11. hminky

    hminky TrainBoard Member

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    Spent the day creating a 3d cab:

    [​IMG]

    Should have it in about two weeks from Shapeways.

    Geez, that was easy.

    Harold
     
  12. hminky

    hminky TrainBoard Member

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    Got my cab from Shapeways. Did the cab as a basic shape to see what could be done initially.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    Came out really well.

    Also got some figures from Modelu in the UK, he is on the left, very nice.

    [​IMG]

    Harold
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  13. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    You seem to have a lot of actual models of the different types of locos.

    I am still fixated on the 55n3 concept now. I've built some cars and a loco, but I am exploring a 4-4-0 conversion.

    When I look at photos of real trains like the this DSP&P, the most critical measurements seem to be the height of the running board and the hieight of the cab roof for someone standing on the caboose platform.
    [​IMG]


    I am not obsessed with perfect to scale fidelity, but rather something that works as a place holder. When I measured how tall 6' is in 1/55 I get about 33-34mm. the average man in that era was more likely about 5' 8", or less. Height is an phenotype that seems to be expressed via genes and diet. Or are the new athletes who are 7+ feet tall some kind of secret breeding program? :D

    Anyway, How does the running board measure from driver hubb to running board on the various 4-4-0's you have?

    looking at your cab on your S scale model, the cab windows align properly with the top of the tender. Thus your model is actually more prototypical in your Sn3.5 than in the out of the box HO scale.

    If you look once again at that image, you see that the men standing at rail bottom edge have the running board at about their jaw line. The guy standing, but leaning inside the cab area is on the tender level and can stand just inside the roof. And the tender top edge lines up just on the bottom of the cab window sill.

    Mind you, I am not doing a prototype. I am doing a fantasy with cheap old models that gets the feel of 1890's railroading. I am also mixing and matching all kinds of things. i.e. I have a Gilpin tramway caboose I just built, but I am also going to build a Prince Edward island Railway baggage car.
     
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  14. hminky

    hminky TrainBoard Member

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    The IHC/AHM/Rivarossi 4-4-0 scales out to an early Porter in 55n3

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Harold
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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  15. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    This is the image that most catches my attention.

    [​IMG]
     
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