Because I have an interest in American Railroads, a number of the Drivers (Engineers) that I am responisble for, have shown an interest in emigrating to the US and becoming railroad engineers. What they would like to know is how does one become an engineer. A number of my drivers are quite experienced having been drivers for a number of years. What is the route for promotion to engineer, what grade would then have to start at and how long would it take? Once they have progress to the position of trainee engineer, how long will it take them to complete training in railroad rules and regulations, traction training (locomotives) practical train handling and route knowledge training. Finally on completion of training where would they stand when it comes to rostering. Does it depend completely on seniority as to who works what trains, so that it means they will get the worst jobs at their home depot, with things only improving as they gain more and more seniority. What shifts will they have to work and what rest periods are they entitled to between jobs. And the most important what is the rate of pay. Does the location and railroad make a difference. If any of you enginees over there can help answer these questions I will be more than grateful. I will then post details on our notice board Thanks in advance Ron Carlisle Driver Instructor for First Capital Connect Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Hey, We had an engineer come from England. At NJ Transit,all students must go thru Choo-Choo U.The course is about 20 months. They are paid 80% thru about half of the training.Once they make it to the second half,they get 90% until they're promoted. Then you get a full 100%. It's very hard,but when you are promoted,your ready. Senority starts the 1st day of class. But,to get to this point is no easy task. You must fill out an application. Then take 11 different appitude tests. If you pass them,then you have to take psycholigy(?) tests. Then a physical.When you pass all of that,then you wait to be called. I was lucky,I only waited 4 months from application to first tests. Some people in my class waited 1 year. Good Luck. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Generally the route followed is from trainman(switchman,brakeman,conductor) to engineer. On the BNSF most trainman are qualified,examined conductors. There may be a few switchman who are under labor agreements which gives them an option of taking or not taking a conductors exam. On the BNSF the engineer training program(referred to as "the program")is a 6 month student program which equates to 5 weeks of intensive classroom training split into a 3 week and a 2 week term the first three weeks are followed by 4 + months of qualifying trips on all sorts of jobs and trains. The last two week period is for simulator runs,reviews and exams. There is a rules exam(G.C.O.R. on the BNSF),an exam on "Air Brake and Train Handling Rules" and a mechanical exam. There are 4 qualifying simulator runs, the first is a practice run, the remainder are a manifest freight, an intermodal and a unit train(mountain division engineers have different simulator runs). A score below 90% on any written exam is a failure. A score below 80% on the simulator runs is a failure. An FRA violation on the simulator(ie. violating a slow order or permanent speed restriction)is an automatic failure. As to working as an engineer, that all depends on what division you happen to be in. I went almost 3 years before I was "set-up" as an engineer. The pay scale is under negotiation right now, it could be that you will earn 100% once you are certified as an engineer. It is also difficult to say what sort of job you will get,but it is usually the most undesirable job(like a midnight shift switch engine). On the Chicago Division you have to have some pretty high seniority(18+years) to hold a slot on the engineers extra board since that is the one(other than the long pool-Chicago/LaCrosse WI)that makes the most money. On most commuter train jobs, the conductors and brakemen make more money than most low seniority engineers.(the ones that work switch engines) however it is considered a promotion and a trainman who is also a card carrying engineer cannot refuse the promotion. Does this help you? There is a lot more to say but I gotta close for now! CT Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
It all depends on where you want to work. Your best bet would be to inquire at the railroads that interest you. They all have different "programs" for engineers. The Federal Railway Administration (FRA) requires that you be "certified" to operate trains on certain railroads. Others, it does not. Being "certified" or having "certification" basically amounts to having an automobile driver's license. During severe labor shortages, railroads will hire engineers outright. You just have to keep looking for the job advertisement. Some companies/schools will train you and certifiy you according to federal regulations, but you would have to pay the fee for the training. Last I heard, the "program" was 5 months in length on the BNSF. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
CSX new hires are conductors, and first you have to attend a 5 week college course at specific technical colleges, about $5000 out of your own pocket. This effort guarantees you an interview. Then if you are hired, you go to Atlanta to conductors school and learn that craft, then going to your chosen work location to begin on-the-job training (OJT). Once successful, you work as a conductor until your seniority group is due to go to engineer school. Depending on where you hire out, it could be a few months to a few years before that happens. 5 weeks of classroom, and then 16 weeks OJT covering all the territory which your terminal protects. After that, if you pass, you get marked up as an engineer and get bumped almost constantly for about 2-5 years, sometimes rolling back to conductor if you can't hold anything. That's what I have seen and heard around for the last few years that hiring has been going on at a fairly heavy rate. IF you really want to work, you'll find a way. Otherwise, plan on spending more time being bumped and trying to hold something long enough to get out before you get bumped again. This is the routine in northern Ohio/southern Michigan. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Thanks for you replies folks. What about the shifts worked, or is it a case of "Report as required" for the next job. What is the minimum rest period that engineers are allowed. I know that you are only allowed to work a maximum of 12 hours before becoming "Dead on the Law" What some of my lads have heard is an engineer could be called for a job at say 8.00 am. work through to 8.00 pm, eight hours rest, then start again at 04.00 next morning. somewhat tiring I would say. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
That's it in a nutshell. Shifts can be anywhere from 8-12 hours. Starting times all vary from job to job. Other jobs are "Report as required" You are allowed to manipulate the controls of a locomotive for 12 hours. After your 12 hours you may not operate a locomotive or train. However, you can sit in the seat of said locomotive and wait any number of hours after your official 12 hours, for transportation to your crew quarters so you can begin your official rest period. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Yea Gods!! They certainly make you work for your hard earned dollars. It must play absolute havoc with your social lives. At least over hear we work to a fixed roster. At some of the larger depots these tasks are broken down into "Drivers Links". Drivers are assigned to these according to seniority. The good thing about working to these rosters is that a person can work out for some time in advance, what shift they will be workig and what "job" they will be working on. Obviously, there are times when a driver will also be rostered for what we call "As Required", where that person will either cover for another driver, who may be on leave or sick, or just report to the depot at a specific time. It could be a case of a week of sitting in the crew room watching TV or playing cards, or if they are unlucky, spending a hour or three with me in the office undergoing various assessments that are required by Her Majesties Railway Inspectorate, like your FRA. Time off is regulated by HMRI law to a MINIMUM of 12 hours between jobs. Also a driver is NOT allowed to work more that 13 days consecutively. Night shifts are not the preserve of the junior drivers either. EVERYBODY has to do them, especially at my home depot (Terminal) where there is only one Link of forstered work for 75 drivers., broken down into three shifts. We work seven evening/night shifts, but NOT seven night shift s on the trot. either four or three. Then two days off, then another seven days of early shifts. The "seven" days are dependent of whether you work a Sunday. These are rostered as one in three, unless you volunteer to work the occassional extra one and it does not break the twelve day rule. Likewise for working on your days off (Rest Days). At the end of the second seven working days, you then get a five day long week end off from Friday to Tuesday inclusive. That how it works for commuter / main line passenger railways in the UK. Freight companies work a similar system, but dirvers have to work a contracted number of hours per year. If they work all their contracted hours, which is not that difficult, It all overtime pay after that. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
The divorce rate or "disillusion of marriage" rate is much higher in this occupation than others. Many railroads are now starting to offer rest days because of fatigue issues. But they do it to keep the FRA from ordering mandatory time away from work. The only FRA requirement for time off is 8 hours of rest if you work for 11 hours and 59 minutes or less. If you work the full 12 hours, you are required to have 10 hours of rest before returning to work. The "report as required" or "on call" jobs can be worked as many days as a person chooses. This way, if a person wants to work for example, 60 days in a row, they can. And some do, even more. Others will work a "work/rest" cycle of 7 days on and 3 days off. Other types of work/rest cycles include: 8 on/3 off, and 11 on/4 off. These are not mandatory days off, but if one so desires, they can mark off on those specific days, no questions asked. You still miss out on quite a few family activities/holidays even with the work/rest schedule. Not all railroads offer work/rest schedules. Most of the shift work is either 5 days on and 2 days off, or 6 days on and 1 day off. Usually they have a specific set of rest days. A very few work 7 days a week. You work where your seniority allows you to work. The "night shift" is not shared amongst all employees. It doesn't necessarily mean that the "low man on the pole" will be stuck on a midnight job, but the possibility is greater that you will. Some people prefer the midnight shift, so you may not have to work at that time of night. The "Rosters" or "Pools"/"Boards" are fixed here too. If your seniority allows, you can work a specific territory all the time. It adds a bit more stability to your life's schedule and you know where you are going to be working when the phone rings to let you know you are being called to work. There is a roster that covers all jobs within many territories. Extra Board they call it. You substitute for someone who is absent from work that day. You could be asked to work any one of a number of jobs that day. It is the luck of the draw as to which assignment you work any given day. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Around here, extra boards cover yard and road, so you basically have no idea when or where you'll be working next. First shift yard, road job on your rest, gone for 2 days, back, another road job gone for 2 days. Then come home and try to get something done, but called back out on your rest again to work 2nd or 3rd in the yard. Regular yard job gets 5 days with 2 off, but they call you constantly on your off days to work anywhere because they're so short of people. Gets to a point where you can't answer your own phone because it might be the RR, and if you answer, they gotcha. If you are on a regular pool job (glorified extra board with specific territory), you'll work your own turns, plus if you are qualified to anywhere else out of that terminal, you will get calls to go elsewhere if they can't find anyone and get a hold of you. Remember, this is what goes on around this area on CSX (northern OH/southern MI). Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Ron, the Guilford Rail System currently has openings for engineers. http://www.guilfordrail.com/Employment/website2.htm Scroll to near the bottom of the page. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Thanks very much you guys for all of the information, especially on the BNSF side of things. I have edited the information that you have all given me and put it into a handout for those who expressed an interest in coming out tothe USA to become an engineer. The most common commont was about the lack of time off and the amount of time you are away from home. I don't know if the money is worth it, but when you can consider that some of our guys are earning over $70,000.00 per year, they think that they will stay over here and put up with the conditions that they have got. At least workingfor the our present employers, you know exactly when you have time off, and they CANNOT force you or coerse you to work on your days off. They are only allowed to ask you if you are available, If, when you are "As required" and they wish you to cover a job that is more that TWO hours either side of your booking on time, they must give you a minimum of 48 hours notice, otherwise you are entitled to turn that job down, unless its suits you. They will try and pull a fast one on some of the new lads, or if they think you are not concentrating at the end of a long shift, but most of the new lads are not daft and ask if what the controller is trying to do is legal. We have separate train crew controllers and operation controllers. We don't have dispatchers. nearly every train has a booked time and pathway, and the movements of trains is controlled by what we call signallers, you call them tower operators. However on nearly all of our main lines. we have what are called Area Power Signal Boxes. These can control up to 100 miles either side of the signal box, but this seems soemwhat insignificant compared to some of the areas I see that your dispatchers are in charge of. It would appear that we are slightly better off on the terms and conditions side compared to what you guys have to endure. Once again thanks for your help and time Ron Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Ron, remember that US$70,000 is less than 38,000 Pounds at the current exchange rate. Granted the US cost-of-living is slightly lower than that in the UK, but our grass ain't all that Green either. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Annual Salary With regard to the $70,000, I was using an exchange rate of $1.85 - £1 as shown on our local TV. What our guys are earning is in excess of £40,000.00. Remember our sundays are not part of the rostered working week and all class as overtime at time and one third, overtime is time and a quarter. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
Maybe im just doing things wrong. I have been trying for three years with UP and BNSF, the only two local RR's and still havent had any luck. Maybe im just in a bad area. My job history isnt the best but I just graduated with my AAS so maybe that will help. Anyone know what kind of comments RR's look for in applications?? Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
JERRY, have the GP-9's you've run had a "transition lever"? Ours does, and its something we move forward a notch every 10mph we gain. Its on the throttle tower, btw. Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
The GP9's I ran on the OC were 'modernized' by the IC and had automatic transitions installed. Your GP9 must still be original. The transition lever is like a 'gear shift'. If I remember correctly, our GP9's made transition at around 25mph. (Sometimes automatic transition is not the smoothest thing either!) The Geep would reach transition speed, unload for a second, make transition, then lurch forward as it quickly loaded up again.
Just two cents worth... I was told today by JCCC/National Academy of Railroad Science that BNSF does all of thier training and hiring through there, anyone here that? Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
