Sometime in the future I plan to build an outdoor layout. I have one locomotive on hand aquired several years ago when I was planning to build a layout at another location. It is a 2-8-0. This will br a small affair with two engines on hand. I would like to equip the engines with battery power and run them with remote control. Can anyone here give me any pointers as to which brands are the best to use as well as their installation?
Let me suggest some things. For "silent running" (without sound), I would go with a FUTABA ATTACK 2 channel radio, a good quality speed control-r/c cars have high current capabilities so their ESC's (electronic speed control) can handle the current draw of a large scale loco. I would get Lithium-Polymer rechargable batteries-you need some good advice on these. Then you would be running wireless without track power. ALL-TROL makes a wireless system that has sound, a bit pricey, but it's available. CVP PRODUCTS has their "Airwire" system for large scale also. The Futaba radio, ESC, and battery plus charger may run you almost 200 bucks, the All Trol may cost 3 to 400 bucks, and the Airwire is much the same. Here is a link to the r/c section of **************************************** There is lots of info on the site and all questions can be answered. Welcome to the world of wireless operation, throw out your wires, track cleaners, and worries. Woodie
Hostler 65, Im an R/C flyer, too, and over the past few years, the older 72 mhz radios have started being replaced by the newer 2.4 ghz radios. This isnt for that discussion, but how this benifits you, is the the older 72mhz radios prices are much lower for used units, and they are still reliable, and perfect for our trains. Look on Ebay for used 2-3 channel r/c car or plane radios.....or , this winter, if u have a chance to attend any r/c swap meets in your area,(talk to the local hobby shop, or modelers), u will more than likely find MANY older radios u could use for your trains for not much money. Just my .02, Welcome to the Trainboard Darryl
One thing to remember when looking for r/c plane stuff is that aircraft have NO reverse and the throttle stick is not set up for backward & forward. Car and boat boards and transmitters would work fine, unless you just have to run a loco that goes one direction. That said, it could be done with the flying surface servos throwing a DPDT switch for direction, but much easier is to use a car/boat unit that does that already. SORRY I posted a link to another site, I did not know it was verboten. There does not seem to be the interest here that there is elsewhere for radio control and I was just trying to help. Woodie
Hey, it's great to help out. But there is always more than one way to help. Links to other train boards are verboten only in the main forums, but you can pm a person you want to help with any helpful link you have. Don't let the rules keep you from helping, there is always other ways to help out. I knew you were just helping out, so all is good. You do bring up one good point however, people on this board don't seem interested too much in R/C battery control that much. EMD Trainman G Scale Moderator
I may be just a novice here, but it seems to me that Battery R/C power would be the way to go outdoors. The only drawback that I can see right now would be the life of the batteries. On the other hand this will add to the operational side of things. Like full size stean engines, a service area would have to be built to charge the batteries. Back in the day, prototype steam engines had to be serviced after each run and prepared for their next assignments. I think that the charging area could be made to resemble an engine terminal where several engines could be getting ready for the road. It's a point to ponder while designing the track plan that will be put into the backyard.
You are right for the most part, battery power would be the most suitable power to use outdoors, this way you did not have to run wires. But what keeps most from using battery power is the expense of the batteries, the purchase of the R/C controls, the installation of battery and other R/C components. Then as you said, the charge and wait time of the batteries where as a track powered layout can run all day long. Although I will have to say battery technology has come a real long way and we may get closer to seeing alot more people using batterry power. Aristocraft and USA Trains locomotives are battery capable, although there is still preperations you have to make, they are still really not plug and play battery power yet, but Aristocraft is real close to that point. We now have Ion and Lithium batteries that can give us more power that lasts longer on a charge in a smaller package.
That is a lot to think about right there. I was thinking that it would be harder to keep the track clean outdoors, but that amount of labor might well outweigh the cost of equiping two or three locomotives with battery power. I am just getting into the beginning of the research phase. In time I hope to get it all figured out. Any advice along the way will be greatly appreciated.
Track Power vs Battery Hostler65, My wife and I have had our layout up and running for about a full year now......and here are a few things we have learned from our experience on track power. I, too, was initially concerned about cleaning the track....but it has really been a non issue. The biggest thing is not about cleanliness....but to make sure all your track joint/connections are sound.........this will save most problems. The most common fault we have seen was before the connections were solid/permanent.....the rains would wash the fine dust into the connections...and cause problems. I have since finished all the connections with clamps, or solder. No more problems with dust/dirt. Here is what we have done.......at first....I used a "swifter" type cleaning mop.....and put a flex/foam fine sanding pad to run over the tracks before a run. Then I would run a clean cloth on it.......and we were good to go. Next I tried using the 3m type scrubber pads....scotchbrite pads.......they come in several coarsness varitities, and that worked well, too. Just walk around the layout to get the dirt and gunk off real quick.....clean off with a cloth, and we were good to go. Then, I got my battery engine ready and it pulls a little car with scotchbrite pads...and I just let it run for 15 min or so, then wipe off the track, and again.....were all set. I do have to touch up on the switches......but all in all....it has been very easy to keep things running.........and I have not wanted to switch from track power at all. Hope that helps.......its a lot of time and money to change over to a different power.....and the trusty transformer has been just fine, imho. D
Switches I have all Aristo wide switches.......manual. (good excersise!!) The most frustrating thing about these, and I presume any, outdoor switch, is it is difficult to impossible to keep the rocks/ballast/dust out of the points and mechanisms. When I get ready to run, I get the track cleaner running....then check each switch, and excersise them to clean the dirt and stuff out...and make sure they operate correctly. If anyone else has suggestions as to how they keep their switches operating well....Im all ears. I have one mouted, (set) on a piece of green treated lumber....this helps...but the rain still splashes the fines into it. D
This is all sound advice for those who want to run outside. The biggest problem with outdoor layouts is conections which is why you want to use as less connections as possible such as using 5ft length straight sections. But when you have to use connections, using rail clamps such as Hillmans works out great, but make sure you use dielectric grease which is water proof or you could solder like dmiller did. Keeping the track clean is the easy part, using a old mop and converting it into a scrubber with scotch brite is great. I also made a track cleaning car with a Aristocraft 2 axle gondolla and a company sells a scotch brite pad attachment that fits right into the undercarriage perfectly. I use a aluminum weight and finish my cleaning out with that behing my switcher. As far as switches, it's never been easy to keep those clean, especially at the points. Then on top of that, on the Aristocraft switches the pivot point screws come loose and fall out, I seen a rivet upgrade for this problem.
That brings up another good point, there is alot of us that don't use electric switches. Most who have layouts outdoors rather use air powered switches if they want remote switches. I myself also use manual switches, I like the feel of throwing the switch myself and believe it or nothave learned to use my big toe to throw the switch successfully, so yes wearing sandles is a plus. I tried one electric switch and hated it. Even when I go to the East Coast Large Scale train show, most of the club displays use manual switches. Every once in a while you will see a layout with auto controlled electric switches, but this is mostly when a trolley is running or a switcher is running on a layout.
switches EMD.... Interesting to hear that many others use the manual varieties. I figured that I was in the minority. The cost to hassle factor will keep me with manual ones. Plus....it keeps the 'audience' involved.............ie......"Hey....can u throw that switch over there!!???" It makes them feel part of the fun! I have one switch that I broke the actuator box off of last winter while cleaning the snow away.........I was P___ed off then.....but now....it is the easiest one to move!!!! No springs/levers to get in the way.......and all u have to do is move the points!!!! I modded all my Aristo's with the intstructions from a popular train magazine.....no more problems with the electrical pickups from rail to switch point.....at least so far. Plus...I made sure the screws were secure... D
You would be surprised how many G scale switches today are made as manual throws. Even custom companies such as Llagas Creek are made to be used as a manual throw. A company called EZ Motion offered air controls for a more reliable powered throw activation, but went out of buisness this year. There is one club display that has a member who has the most accurate manual throw switch I ever seen. If the switch is there I will get pictures of it at the East Coast fall show. It has the lever arm you have to pick up in order to turn it and even has the stand with the red/green indicators on it. I thought it was really neat. If you think about it, most shortlines use manual throw swithces too. The shortline in my town does not have one automated switch on the entire branch line and all use the red/green indicator stands and not lights to tell the engineer which position the switch is in. They have to stop at the switch and throw it manually.
Couple of comments - Re batteries - Lithium-Ion and lithium-Polymer batteries are mentioned in this thread as if they are interchangeable. They are quite different battery-technologies especially when it comes to charging. Lithium-polymer batteries MUST be used with special charging circuits designed specifically for them or they can easily explode - so before you use them, know what you're getting into. Track maintenance - I run both analogue and DCC, both track powered, and I don't have a lot of problems with power pick up from the track. I find the sliders used by LGB and most USA Trains locos help a lot with pick up and cleaning the track - not very prototypical, bit I'm more interested in flawless operation. In general, battery operation is not an option for me for a couple of reasons - Cost - I have over 50 locos and equipping them all would be too expensive. I also don't really believe always running with a trailing car behind the engine with the battery or even the whole control and I have a number of very small engines where I have trouble installing a sound decoder - no place for any batteries. I also find that battery-operation doesn't offer nearly the additional capabilities I can have with DCC or even DC - not because it's technically not doable, there is simply not enough power available. Friends of mine that run with battery power basically just run the loco and maybe lights in the locomotive, nothing else to extend the running times. No smoke, no sound, no lights in passenger cars - and totally forget any 'niceties' like remote uncoupling, controlling individual lights, etc. But for a limited number of locos, preferably big ones with lots of space for batteries and the controllers, battery operation can be a very good option. I would tend to go with a battery R/C system that's specifically designed for outdoor model trains - RCS with a tiny controller that fits in your shirt pocket, or the new Aristocraft Revolution system - Locolinc I think is still around. As a minimum I would think you want to control the engine - speed, forward and back, blow the horn and ring the bell independently, maybe turn lights on and off. A bit of planning ahead to get the "right" system will eliminate the disappointment later.
I must admit that I've gotten a few good ideas from this thread so far. I'm pretty sure that I'll be going with manual turnouts. I am going to only have two or three locomotives at best, but I would like to have some sort of remote control so I can follow them and throw the switches as I go. I think Arist-Craft might have made a remote system a few years ago, I'll have to do some looking and see if that is still the case.
krs, I didn't know you were quite the collector, wow 50 locomotives. Thanx for clarifying the different battery technologies and the dangers of improper use. Hostler, as krs stated, Aristocraft introduced a new remote control system focusing on battery controlled operations called "The Revolution"
