Copied-WW In working on the new grain elevator section on my East Central Indiana RR, I have decided to removed the Atlas switch machines for the turnouts there and return to Caboose Industries Ground Throw sprung switch machines. After all, I will have to work the yard from a tethered controller and it will be easy to throw the machine by hand. However, they are a bit oversized. CI has reduced the size aver the years, but they are still large. I told you that to tell you this. Yesterday at an NMRA division meet, I saw an interesting arrangement. The individual had made small springs out of piano wire and placed them in a centered hole in the turnout's throw arm with the other end a couple of ties away. This allowed him to throw the turnout with a finger and have it held firmly in place by the spring. He had read of this in an article in a magazine and it looked smooth in operation. I'm thinking about it. The only downside is that there is no longer a switch machine there. I do have some scale ground throws complete with green and yellow jewels that could possibly be fastened by spring wire to the throw arm so that they would turn with the turnout. They aren't strong enough to actually throw the turnout, but they should follow well. This would be a lot more work, but I think that it could look great. I'm thinking about it. Anyone else here backdated their controls like this to get a 'hands on' approach and if so, how did it work out for you? Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net/eci_new.html == == East Central Indiana (ECI) HO Scale Railroad == [ March 28, 2006, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: watash ]
Yes, tried it, worked fine as long as you can reach and see the points. You do need to see from a distance, which way the points are set though. I think I remember reading an article about WWII time about this to gain better circuit on rail points, and the switch was operated remotely by pulling a string. One string had a round wood bead for straight, the other had a wire ring, for turn. You could look to see which way the switch was positioned. ------------------ Watash
I seem to remember that trolley turn outs work this way too, at least in O gauge. Should be great with a walk-a-round control! ------------------ Watash
This particular idea came from the Model Railroader article on the building of Alkali Central in the December 1995/January 1996 issues. The recommendation is for .025 piano wire and they include a bending diagram. this information came from the gentleman who owned the layout that I saw. It will be relatively easy to attach a low level or high level operating switch stand to the switch throw bar to get a visual indication of which way the switch is set. Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == NMRA track gauge. "Don't do trains without it." ==
Which way did you decide to go Roger? Have you tried the spring idea for test? ------------------ Watash
I haven't been able to get back into the basement yet. My roof was damaged in a hail storm last May and the roofers just finished leaving me with putting up new wood trim, paint, guttering and part of two ceilings. Winter is coming here (U.S.) and this must get done. THEN back to the rails. There just isn't enough time in the day. :-( I have already selected the pieces and parts and I will install two for a test. I can use the same mounting pads that I had cut for the ground throws I was going to install. As it was said, "So let it be written. So let it be done." And it will be done. Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net/eci_new.html == == East Central Indiana Railroad ==
I'm sorry to hear about your roof Roger. We had the same thing here a few years ago. Totaled my mother's car and even dented the bed on my '75 Ford pickup! That's some heavy steel! I hope it didn't do any damage to your layout. ------------------ Watash
No damage to the layout yet. But if I don't get guttering back up on the east side, I'm going to have a terrible time keeping the basement dry. :-( My priority for this Saturday is to replace those gutters. The others may take a day or two longer. The houses are very close on that side and my in-ground gravel drain can't handle the load without the gutters. As for cars with dents, my wife's car took it hard. Mine was over here 20 miles away. We were talking golf ball size hail and larger. On some homes south of us, the hail punched right through the roof. The roofers are finished but I can't get guttering people until December, thus I'll do it myself. Required mrr content: I just picked up the last 5 and a half years worth of RMC magazines for $30 U.S. including shipping. That's a little less than 50 cents each and most are in excellent condition. I enjoy reading the back issues and the duplicates I have, I'll give to kids at one of our NMRA Meets and Dealer Shows. Doesn't do any good to backdate my turnout controls if there is no one to build layouts in the future. Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net/eci_new.html == == East Central Indiana Railroad ==
Roger, this is the system that I'm using. I take a copper tube in which the rod can slide. I mount to eyescrews under my layout where I can put the rod in so it stays straight when pulling or pushing. At one end I bend the rod upwards and put in the center hole of the tie that moves the switch. On the other side I drill a hole in the side of the layout table where the brass tube is fixed in that drilled hole. The rod tha comes out of that side of the tube is either bend upwards or downwards so you can easili pull or push your switch. it works perfect! Paul the 2nd ------------------ Paul Van Herwegen Rappannahock Terminal Railway
Paul #2, do you have the hand end of these rods lined up in a row on your control pannel, or is each one closer to the turnout it moves? As you describe it, it would operate similar to the choke rods on older automobiles which would allow them to work around a corner. Do you bend the tube to reach a turnout that is parallel to the rod, or use a bell crank, I mean? As I picture it in my mind, it would work with the over-center spring very well. I will have three turnouts that are 11 feet away and 22" above my control pannel, so had planned on using electric control. Now maybe not. I like your design! ------------------ Watash
Well Watash, when your track is parallel to the rod, you run your copper tubing some 2" parallel to the track. When you reach your switch to just bend the rod towards the direction to the tie with the whole and then bend it upwards. At the end of this month we will be at a show with the layout and I will take a couple of pictures from the underside, it will simplify things. Paul the 2nd ------------------ Paul Van Herwegen Rappannahock Terminal Railway
I get the picture, when you said rod, I had not visualized a small rod or wire that would be flexible enough to work around a corner. You have an excellent idea! May I use it on my new layout, or is it patented? ------------------ Watash
Yes, do you want to buy it???????? Paul the 2nd ------------------ Paul Van Herwegen Rappannahock Terminal Railway
I couldn't afford it!! You Consultants make too much money I know I was one too. Perhaps I can beat your patent, or just steal one and copy it. Ha. Enjoy the show and your trip next year! ------------------ Watash
Paul the 2nd said... I take a copper tube in which the rod can slide. I mount to eyescrews under my layout where I can put the rod in so it stays straight when pulling or pushing.... And I say, I've seen something like that done very successfully. However, when fat old men move around the edge of the layout, things get moved. In my case there would be a cluster of controls and that would be a plus for your suggestion. However, after hanging guttering tomorrow (Saturday) and a meeting Sunday about a NMRA Regional Convention that we are hosting next year, I am going to do at least one turnout Sunday afternoon to say that I have made some progress and to be able to tell you how it worked out. I'm tired of all of this other stuff. I want to go play with my railroad!! I've even put a piece of piano wire and one of the low level switch stands on my computer desk to remind me of what's important this weekend. Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net/eci_new.html == == East Central Indiana Railroad ==
Way to go, Roger! I'm mentally considering Paul's most excellent idea, because I just happen to have several choke control rod assemblies left over from when I worked for Volkswagon. But, like you, this week end, I have to put up a wall, (on the outside of my roundhouse)! Progress. Its raining out right now. ------------------ Watash
Ok, I tried it and I'm not sure that I like it. :-( I did get down to the layout last night and cut the wire to shape, drilled the holes and installed the piano (spring) wire. It just doesn't feel right to me. I installed the test spring in a turnout next to one on which I have already installed the new smaller Caboose Industries ground throw. I threw the new turnout back and forth and then the ground throw. I adjusted the new spring until it wouldn't hold the points closed and then adjusted the tension back to where it held the points securely. After tuning it, I ended with almost exactly the shape that the MR article suggested. Perhaps a wire less than the .025 would be better, but I doubt it. It is likely that it wouldn't have the tension to hold the points against the stock rail. After thowing both turnouts several times, I don't really think that I would like to throw these turnouts this way during an operating session. It may be fine for occasional use, but I think that I will probably use the Caboose Industries ground throws when switching my grain hoppers. Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net/eci_new.html == == East Central Indiana Railroad ==
Hi all,I use CABOOSE INDUSTRIES switch stands. (204S) It's a little tricky at yard throats to figure out the clearances for a forest of four or five of them but I enjoy the design challenge. For me I like the slower pace of my branchline type ops so I can do the crew jobs manually. Also the shelf type design helps.(No switches in remote locations). I might build a larger RR and need electric turnout control, But for now two Block control and momentum throttles keep me happy. Happy RR'ing, Bobby.
Roger, the rod in the brass tube system works only on switches with a centering spring, like the switches of Peco. it does not work with switches where you need pressure on the switch blades so they stay against the rail; ------------------ Paul the 2nd Paul Van Herwegen HO Rappannahock Terminal Railway G Emerald Valley RR http://users.pandora.be/paul.van.herwegen/
What is the shape of the over-center spring? I am picturing an "S" or "Z" shape with a straight tail on both ends. One end bent up about .100" long, the other tail bent down about .5" long to go into the table. I guess your finger nail might occasionally loosen a piece of paint or ballast, but with Paul#2's tube/rod operating the throw bar, the snap action would be felt both ways and not be noticeable in photos either. The throw bar probably works the switch stand to rotate the red/green flags, and or change the lights. The little "s" spring is the critical part it seems. Some force against the rail by the moved point rail is all that will prevent a "split the turnout" accident. Yes/No? ------------------ Watash
