Actually that was all a tangent in regards to the S4. When the Atlas model comes out, somebody else will show the comparison and they'll be a big hero and a champion to the consumer. I won't comment in the NW-2 because obviously I'm on an island no one else wants to hear it. I really don't care honestly, I just don't like the turn the hobby is taking in regards to the prototype. I'm just very thankful Kato has done this model already so I don't have to deal with it. It is somewhat amusing that a company that who has no history of being protoypically accurate, paints their locomotives in fantasy paint schemes (P&LE S4), screws up other paint schemes completely (the new PRR hopper), says a box car is made from drawings when it's clearly not can get so much support on this. But, whatever. I've corrected more than one manufacturer's mistake before a product has gone to market, but I guess you guys really don't care if it's right or not as long as it's cheap. Jason
Jason -- Let the market decide. If these engines are so terrible, guess what -- nobody will buy them. I bought the Spectrum S4 because I wanted to detail it myself (and change the road name). I love how smoothly it runs. I also plan to get the Atlas S2. As the cliché says, variety is the spice of life. I am just grateful that there are a lot of companies that want to make quality N scale products. As for fantasy schemes, there are a lot of folks who are not rivet counters and might enjoy the fantasy scheme. To each his own - it is a hobby! This is not worth arguing about or getting upset over. Everyone should relax and enjoy running their model railroads.
Figured I better post some photos in this thread before it gets too violent. Please note, these are not the photos of the new NW2. Just 3 switchers. Forgive the blurriness.
If I were just going by those photos the Bachmann S4 looks as well detailed as the Atlas MP15 and has finer handrails, the Kato NW2 has good detail but they never get the Santa Fe blue dark enough.
Do you have a Kato SF NW-2? I think the blue is dark enough, and the yellow a bit too warm in color. Maybe my Bmann NW-2 is in neighbors mailbox, but not home all weekend Joe D
FYI, the mechanism is very similar in design to the S-4, although not identical - Performance is the same, though. Smooth, soundless and very, very slow. Cheers, -Mark
Here are some Bachmann/Kato comparison shots (the Rock Island unit is a Kato with custom paint). My apologies for the quality of the photos :-( Cheers, -Mark
Thanks for the photos Mark. I think the Bachmann looks just as good as the Kato. It is obviouslly a different variation as you can tell from the radiator grills. The Bachmann couplers are something that I will chuck in the round file just like my accuhates. Other than that I think this will be a Winner Winner Chicken Dinner! Ryan
Perhaps it is just the photo angle, but the Bachmann appears to be slightly larger? If so, which is closer to scale?
Wow! not nearly as crappy as I've been led to believe, based on the discussion....much, much finer detail than previous releases...rather like the very nice handrails and the windows. Hmmmm... I can certainly see the obvious faults in releases like the DD40 and the recent re-release of the F units...even the window glass treatment on the very nice S4... but, really...this looks more than acceptable for a majority on N scale hobbyists...especially with the performance and pricing. Yes, there are obvious differences between the two offerings...to my eyes, the only real obvious differences are the size of the grills on the top and front of the hood...yes, there are detail differences (I've come to expect more 'detail' from Kato and Atlas), but in other ways, this has nicer detail than the Kato unit (handrail thickness ehhh....it all comes down to individual choice...but...truly, I was expecting to see much more of a 'bear' than this...this is nice Respectfully, ~Bruce
I think that's just an optical illusion - the two are basically the same size (and if they're not, any differences would be measured in tenths of a millimeter). Cheers, -Mark
Boy, I'll tell you what.....the Bachmann IS right up there with the Kato in appearance, from judging these photos. While weaker in some respects (I never did like the "Bachmann Gap" outlining long hood doors), it is actually better detailed in others. Looks like a winner to me too! VERY impressed!
Mark, can you get a shot that shows where the chassis screws are on the front? I've made a minor career out of hacking up Kato NW2's into SW1's for customers, mostly because the screw positions on the front allow it. This isn't looking particularly possible here. I'm really surprised that Bachmann went here, because I've heard the Kato NW2 didn't exactly set sales records. I'm VERY happy with mine, but the first thing I did with it was put a LL SW8 body on it. If you're suggesting that they led with the S4 and consider the NW2 tooling to be a minimal addition to basically the same drive/chassis, that would make a little more sense here. I've been baffled why nobody has done an SW1, but from the looks of things, there's little to no room for a shorter decoder there. I've only been irritated at Bachmann for what I consider pure laziness to take an existing HO model and tool an N one from that as the primary prototype resource; painfully obvious on the 70-tonner and 44-tonner. Knowing how hard Kato works to get the details right (even if every phase isn't represented) that's a bit of a cop-out. Sometimes it's really bad, sometimes not, but that's been offset by some truly good mechanisms in there and nice performance.
oh boy, this is going to make some Southern Pacific modelers really happy, and some, well, not so happy. The Bachmann model appears to be a Phase I and matches the first ten delivered (orig # 1310-1319, renumbered in 1965 to 1904-1913), the right protruding headlamp (the SP had a single lens), correct horn type and placement, and no louvers. These were all retired by 1971 when 37 later units were rebuilt, and all of these had louvers....and sfter rebuilding, different lights and horns...there were 33 NW2E's left on the SP roster in 1985....grrrr.....looks like surgery, but for a modeler of the SP modeling the 1980's, this one should be easy http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/sw_photos/1312_sp-nw2-don_jewell.jpg http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/sw_photos/1303_sp-nw2e-ken_whitehead.jpg
Thanks for the side-by-side pics, Mark. Other than noticing that the two aren't identical, I have to wonder what all the fuss has been about in regards to the Bachmann's appearance. For the vast majority who embrace "close enough," this looks like a winner. Sounds like a winner, too, based on your description of its performance. And for those of us who cringe at the thought of taking a soldering iron to a loco, I love the affordability of Bachmann's DCC-equipped models. Jim
There are those who are not happy with models that have any prototypical inaccuracies whatsoever (no matter how small). And yes, this model does have a number of them. Personally, I don't think I'd find this hobby very enjoyable if my requirements were that stringent. But hey, to each his own. Cheers, -Mark
Well put. I guess on some level those who are uber devoted to prototype fidelity remind me of religious zealots. Now, I don't care what anybody believes. But I sure as hell don't want them to tell me about it. Jim
Got mine delivered today! Since Mark did Kato/Bmann shots, no need for me to. I think it looks pretty good. Someone over on railwire was griping about 10 or so "issues". I like the twin-beam headlight. It runs great after a little breaking in. Mine does seem to have a bit of a wobble in forward, as if some issue with front truck. Wheel not centered??? I'm happy for the variation, and it's in NYC paint, so I don't have to strip/paint decal Kato model. Could use a bit more weight like S-4, but there's the same places for lead sheet and tungsten discs and lead putty. Joe D
One of my great criticisms of the scale in general was that entry-level trainsets had such abysmal quality that they stunted the growth of the entire hobby in the 80's and early 90's, mostly the 'Model Power' Roco stuff, and some early Bachmann. Performance AND appearance. What's coming out of Atlas (Trainman) and Bachmann, and Kato, is light years ahead in overall quality, hopefully preventing further frustration on the 'N scale doesn't work well' problem. I'll always rate performance over appearance, period. If it hadn't been for Trix, compared to Rivarossi/Atlas in the early 70's, I definitely would have given up entirely on N. That kept me in it long enough to fight through the problems and upgrade over the years. But I'm still sometimes thunderstruck by the decisions made in tooling on Bachmann; some is very good, and some is inexplicably bad. But unlike the old days, it's a runner. The 44-tonner made me a believer.
