Any noticeable difference between Digitrax and TCS for motor control?

Taymar Jan 6, 2019

  1. Taymar

    Taymar TrainBoard Member

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    Hi all,

    I've got a digitrax zephyr controller and a couple of dz126t decoders. I recently picked up a used loco that came with a decoder, which I believe to be a TCS M1. The low speed creep on this is phenomenal.

    Ideally I'll eventually be able to do a back to back test with each decoder, but in case it's an obvious answer - is there going to be a noticeable difference between these two brands for N scale steam please? For all future decoders I've got my eye on the TCS M4 or Digitrax DZ146 as I'd like a couple of extra light functions. No sound needed.

    thank you.
     
  2. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    If you are simply looking for excellent motor control, and a couple of lighting options, look at the Zimo and ESU (LokPilot) decoders. They are far and away better than either Digitrax or TCS, and you can get them in VERY SMALL packages.
     
  3. Taymar

    Taymar TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you. Just to make sure I'm using the terms correctly - by motor control I mean very precise and smooth low speed movement and smooth acceleration. Are we on the same page or does motor control not really mean this?

    Thanks again, will check them out for certain.
     
  4. Keith Ledbetter

    Keith Ledbetter TrainBoard Member

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    to be honest almost all of the ones mentioned in this thread have really good motor control. I would say in general ESU and ZIMO are generally regarded as "best". Nothing wrong at all with TCS and Digitrax is fine. Personally unless you're experiencing issues I wouldn't change any but if you are looking to replace I would go with ESU or Zimo as they are all within a few bucks price wise. $25-30ish

    Most people have their favorites but it's mostly pure preference then actually "better". The trick is as you say usually jittery or bad slow speed performance is something other than decoer unless its really old or has a true issue. The pickup or motor in the loco is the more likely culprit.

    I can verify from personal experience that both the Zimo 600 series and the ESU Lokpilots (nano and micro) are absolutely outstanding but i have used the TCS if I find it significantly cheaper.

    I personally try to use ESU as much as I can but that is wholly due to my familiarity and use with the setup and programming. All of them have incredible functionality but there is learning curve with adjusting various things and it's pretty different depending on decoder manufacturer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  5. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Yes, the ability to creep along, smoothly, at under 1 smph. And smooth speed curve interpolations. And ability to quickly speed match.

    Another very nice thing about ESU and Zimo - the decoder firmware can be updated by the user (if you have the programming equipment used for the brand). There are lots of folks who have the ESU LokProgrammer (fewer have the Zimo).
     
  6. Taymar

    Taymar TrainBoard Member

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    Perfect, thanks again guys!

    If I go with ESU/Zimo, will I be fine to use them with my digitrax zephyr or will I need to buy a new control unit to get the best performance?

    Really all the additional functions I think I need are going to be forward/reverse lights and firebox flicker.

    Thanks again, I had not heard of either of these brands until now.
     
  7. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    All DCC decoders work fine with just about any DCC command station (there are a few exceptions, but not any of the Digitrax or NCE stations). Also, even for non-sound decoders, highly recommend using JMRI DecoderPro for programming any of them. I use my old Zephyr (DCS-50) as the command station for my test/programming set up.
     
  8. Keith Ledbetter

    Keith Ledbetter TrainBoard Member

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    You'll be perfectly fine. DCC is DCC. I would highly recommend you get JMRI (do a quick web search it's freeware) if you have not. You can hook your zephyr up to it. It makes it 1000 times easy to do stuff like speed match, tweak speed curves, change functions and lights then doing through your Zephyr.

    Great minds think alike as Rick posted like 10 seconds before mine did! Hey at least you're not getting conflicting info!
     
  9. Taymar

    Taymar TrainBoard Member

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    Awesome, thank you! JMRI was definitely in my future (would like to try and automate the layout eventually) but I didn't realize it could program decoders!

    Quick question - it looks like the ESU micro decoders are rated for .75a whereas I believe the digitrax say they are 1a. I imagine there's some variance anyway but should .75 be plenty for an N scale loco please? Biggest ones I have are a Kato gs-4 and a couple of Mikado and 2-8-0s.

    Thanks again for the advice!
     
  10. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    More than sufficient.
     
  11. Taymar

    Taymar TrainBoard Member

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    Perfect, thanks so much. I'll pick up a couple of the ESU ones, download JMRI and see how I get on.
     
  12. hoyden

    hoyden TrainBoard Supporter

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    I run (n scale) with a Zephyr Classic and a Zephyr Xtra, and a large assortment of Digitrax and TCS decoders. I prefer the TCS decoders over Digitrax for their programmable accel/decel (CV's 3 and 4). The Digitrax decoders, even set to maximum (31) only coast for a few seconds. I typically set TCS decoders for about 1/4 maximum to get the desired accel/decel.

    OTOH, I've never gotten the speed curves to work correctly with TCS decoders and I use the 3 point control; min, mid, max.

    I have a few ESU's in sound equipped locomotives and overall like their performance. If ESU or Zimo offered drop-in decoders like TCS and Digitrax, I would use them more often.
     
  13. Taymar

    Taymar TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you, appreciate the advice. Sounds like ESU are highly regarded.

    I'm looking at their lineup and the lokpilot v4 micro seems to be the one that'll fit my needs. It's available in three ''interface" versions though which I don't fully understand. I'm likely not going to have room for a bulky connector in some of my locos so presumably just the board with wires is what I need. I'm not sure if they sell one without a connector though.
     
  14. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    They don't, but it is REALLY EASY to snip the connector off :LOL: Just get either the 6pin or 8 pin version (then you cut either 6 or 8 wires). If/when you get into these big time, and possibly move to sound, you would probably also want to get a LokProgrammer and LokTester (a decoder tester with built in motor, speaker, lights and a number of different connectors). I do most of my initial programming of an ESU decoder ahead of time, attached to the LokTester, then snip off the connector and install. Final tweaking, of course, is done installed in the loco.

    There are a number of ESU install threads, for different locos, by myself and others here. While most are for LokSounds, the same principles hold for LokPilots (you just don't need to make room for a speaker). TrainBoard advertiser Streamlined Backshop (sbs4dcc.com) is an excellent source for ESU decoders, and Bryan is always willing to help a modeler.
     
  15. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    Well having used Zimo, ESU, TCS and Digitrax decoders I can tell you all the good the bad and the ugly of all of them.

    When it comes to decoders, I start with Zimo and work down from there. There is also a big difference in long term functionality. I have several dozen of failed Digitrax decoders and TCS decoders with only 2 Zimo and 0 ESU. That is out of a very large fleet of locomotives.

    Digitrax has a issues due to fabrication, many times the board decoders are much thinner than the original light board and they had a really tough time figuring out how to make lead free solder work. TCS has tried and failed miserably implementing TRIM functionality. One decoder that is also very good for stand alone locomotives is the Lenz Silver series. Outstanding motion control. They do not support trim but otherwise they are pretty darn good as well. They are in the first decoders in my locomotive fleet and still running strong 15 years later. Not a single TCS or Digitrax decoder has lasted that long yet.

    When it comes to costs, the old adage, "You get what you pay for" rings true. It is not only quality of performance for Zimo and ESU, it is also the ongoing support made possible to update the decoder firmware. No one's software is perfect, but being able to download and update the decoder firmware is really awesome. That extends the life of the decoders too.

    Using JMRI and the LokProgrammer are also priceless to get your locomotives rolling right
     
  16. Atani

    Atani TrainBoard Member

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    I'll echo this one! I've had a heck of a time getting a couple Digitrax "drop in" decoders to be stable on a few older Atlas locos due to the thinner boards. I've got one working reliably now with four added solder blobs that were mushed to fit when reassembling the frame halves back together. I find the wired decoders a lot easier and more reliable than the drop in style in most cases.
     
  17. Taymar

    Taymar TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you. I've had digitrax for my z scale locos and certainly encountered a few reliability issues. I'm pretty much sold on ESU at this point thanks to the advice here.

    One thing I'm still a little unclear on - the lokpilot v4 micro appears to have 7 wires in the photos but the specs say 2 additional function outputs. Would I need to solder leads to the extra solder pads on the board to make this work or do functions get attached some other way?

    Thanks again, checked into SBS4DCC and he also has the best pricing I've found so far.

    As mentioned earlier it's great that everyone's telling me the same thing here!
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  18. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Yes, if you get the 6 pin connector version, then there are only 7 wires (the blue is not on that connector). If you get the 8 pin version, then there are 8 wires.

    In pairs, these are:
    6&8 pin Red/Black - track power
    6&8 pin Orange/Grey - motor +/-
    6&8 pin White/Yellow - Front/Rear light
    8 pin Blue/Green - Common(+)/Aux1

    For the 6 pin version, you would need to connect wires to both the Aux1 and Aux2 pads. On the 8 pin connector, you only need to connect an extra wire to Aux2 pad.
     
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  19. Taymar

    Taymar TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks again Rick!

    I haven't managed to find an 8 wire version of the micro anywhere yet, but was able to find the front and back diagrams of the micro v4.
    Would the two pads I've arrowed, plus the GND pad be where I'd connect my extra functions to please? I assume headlight and rear light pads are both -ve and the blue +ve is where both lights connect to.

    Also, since they are logic level outputs, does that mean I shouldn't wire lights directly to them but rather would use them as a trigger to switch on a separate lighting circuit?

    Thanks so much for the help, seems that pretty much every online store that carries these uses the same photo so hard to tell where all the wires go.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  20. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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