In the photo, you say that it was printed, except the handrails' in brass ... Questions, what scale is it ? and how much did it cost [including shipping] ?? I -assume- from Shapeways ?
So that cathedral was printed with what is basically a DLP Projector Resin printer. With the Formlabs 1 type Laser Resin printer, the laser has to draw everything at each height step using an XY Galvo Mirror. So you move the platform up in Z in the resin tank where it sits submerged at the focal point, draw a picture, move up more in Z, draw another picture etc. Also you cannot focus the laser spot size smaller, so resolution is limited to the laser spot size X and Y With the DLP Projector type, instead of drawing a picture with the laser at each Z height step, you flash expose a whole picture, move in Z, expose the next layer, move in Z, etc. It's much faster. Where the high resolution comes in is limiting the size of the picture. If you use a 1080p projector (Yes the same type used for home TV projector) to project the light on a 200mm x 112mm resin vat, the pixels are 104um in X and Y. (smallest resolution dot possible) but if you make the screen size smaller to for a smaller build area of 100mm x 56mm, the pixels are 52um in X and Y. By focusing your screen to project a smaller screen size, you can make finer resolution parts. Now if you keep the same 100mm x 56mm build area and use a 4K projector, the pixels will be 26um X and Y. Also, the other trick used is to build your model diagonal instead of flat. The Z Axis can be set to step finer than the XY resolution, so a model built at a 45 degree angle moved 13um in Z can exhibit as much as 13um larger or smaller spot size on the next layer, thus making the effective step that much smaller. So that's why you often see models built diagonally instead of flat on a resin printer, is to extract the smoothest model possible. And those jewelry people want super fine resolution, so the last trick up their sleeves is to use less viscous resin, and not rinse the unexposed resin off, instead they often will use Q tips to wipe the excess off, leaving some resin to stay between the build stairsteps, and place the part into a UV cure which exposes and hardens the remaining resin, thus analog to sanding the steps smooth.
That is a Z Scale brass print from Shapeways. I'll have to PM you about how they price things(forum rules). Shapeways is not as good as finding someone that uses a resin printer. However, you can "work the system" and get better prints from them in a few ways. Here is that same shell completed.
Resin SLA 3D printers like the ones from https://formlabs.com will totally print stuff that is as small and finely detailed as those cathedrals. I have one of their older printers the Form1+ Kinda pricy, but really great.
This is a video that shows how the printer I bought works: It works like a Form Labs printer except the FL uses a laser and mine has a LCD screen. There is a UV light under the screen. You "slice" your models and project each layer to the LCD screen. The UV light cures each layer. I use .05mm layers, but it goes down to .02mm. You put the sliced file onto a USB drive. Plug that into the machine and press "play" When I got mine they were about $525 on Amazon. Back then I found one for $415, but the price has come down even more, now you can find them for around $250: https://www.anycubic.com/products/anycubic-photon-3d-printer
I can't find a direct comparison. I'd guess the laser might have more resolution. The LCD screen is 2K.
I had heard the lasers are around 80 microns (although now that I just Googled it I see 140 microns for the Form 2) while the Photons and similar MSLAs are 47 microns pixel resolution. I found this info in the context of the larger scale MSLA printers that we'll be seeing soon that despite their larger build areas don't have more pixels than the smaller screens so their resolution isn't as good, around 84 microns. As with everything 3D printing these specs are the result of several variables. For Photons, for example, if you have overexposure that 47 micron ideal won't be achieved. Sometimes though, that can work to your advantage in covering of the pixelated nature of the build process. I'll add, given that 140 microns from a Form 2 is completely acceptable, anything better than that is just icing on the cake. Mike
Just for everyone. 47 microns is 0.00185039". This is a pretty small pixel size. 80 microns is 0.00314961". That sounds like a Photon is better. When you "slice" the model. You set the exposure times for each layer. The first few layers get exposed higher so they stick to the build plate. It would be great to have the same machine with a 4k screen. For squareish items like model trains it think it works great. I do find I need to over-exaggerate things like board gaps so they don't fill in. But the end result looks good. If anyone has a Z scale file they'ed like me to print just let me know, I'll give it a whirl and post pics.
That's a very nice printer for the price Chris, and I just thought of a use case where a few of those Anycubic Photons running in the background could be very useful to me. Rather than use the supports, I was thinking the "Boat" that sticks to the build platform could be used as a pseudo structure foundation, then build Z Scale brick structure foundations on top without supports, along with first floor brick rooms. Probably could skip the rinse step too, and move straight to UV cure, sanding stick brick surface prep, primer, and go on to building the rest of the model with laser cut wood and other traditional tecniques. Also of use could be stuff like coal bins with spilled coal on the ground, coal bunker door for the structure, cut down tree stumps, pallets with wood crates, junk, etc. If it don't all form perfectly, it will still have modelers appeal as assorted debris to get painted and weathering powdered. All this stuff printed on the otherwise discarded build supports minimizing waste. With a use case like this, a guy with a Laser Engraver and an a couple 3 Anycubic Photons could have fun building all kinds of reproducable "2 Gray Bros" mini dioramas to unload on ebay and fund his retirement layout in style! Add in some home etched brass details, and cheap LED lighting and it could really be fun. OH, Yesterday I did my first test cut with my laser (just paper so far) so it's all connected and I just have to write power profiles for all my materials now. My workbench is almost up and running, and ready for an RP machine. Since these Anycubic Photons are so affordable I'm going to research freeware design software to get the ball rolling. I was planning on investing $4-5K on a 4K DLP, but $400-500 is a less painless way to develop skills.
Heck, I'm considering a Photon. The detail it offers and price point makes a future 25-car FMC 4200 coal gon train possible in my basement rather than Shapeways. https://www.shapeways.com/product/CEA6PMUEK/fmc-4200-cubic-foot-bathtub-gondola-18
You can print direct to the build plate, I've done it. Sometimes you might get an elephants foot effect because of higher times of the first layers, but you can make up for that. This photo is one example: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=47955.msg635479#msg635479 At The Railwire they started a 3D forum because so many people where were getting Photons. Has to be at least 10-12 people so far, one guy has 2! The slicing software for the Photon is free from their site. There is another slicer called ChiTuBox that is a little better, but sometimes has problems. Another slicer is Prusa Slicer, but I haven't tried it yet. There is also a Photon File Validator program that lets you edit every single pixel of your sliced file. And a "Anycubic Photon Printer Owners" group on Facebook. They tend to make mostly war game figures, but still some good info about the printers. As for the actual 3D modeling, well I'm an idiot and I figured it out using Sketchup. Most of the folks are much better than I am, but I get what I want in the end so oh well.
Not yet, yesterday I was down with a colonoscopy, all OK, but today I am going to start typing in my power profiles, and test the output power of the laser. If good, run, if I am getting 25watts or less, send out for recharge. Would like to run this winter and send out in the summer when I am busy doing the camping fishing thing.
So I was looking at the price, and the Anycubic Photon is $269 on Amazon, but the Anycubic Photon S is $389 through other sellers, and it looks like that elephant foot issue is resolved by the upgraded Z mechanism on the S model, plus they built in carbon filters smell abatement. Other than that, they are the same. Of course for the extra $120 saved, I can afford to build a sealed plexyglas exhaust chamber around the whole RP area and never smell the resin nor the alcohol, live with the elephants foot by design compensation and/or Z fixes found and sand it off. Which way would you go?
For the price of the Shapeways set, you can buy a whole printer and extra resin, then print a whole set. The only consideration is the timeframe it takes to draw up the car. Might take a couple months to get good enough at a drawing program to do it, but it will be learning curve well invested.
I know the guy who did the artwork for the SW product--I provided the photos of the car. I'm hoping I can buy the files from him. I know NOTHING abotu CAD or vector drawing, so his work alone will be worth it. Question is, how much should I offer? What would a CAD drawing on a single railcar be worth? BTW, SW offers them in Z, as he scaled them down to Z as well...
Hard to say how much a model file would be worth, probably whatever they'd be willing to sell it for. They definitely take a lot of time to create. My current plan, since my modeling skills aren't great, is to find something that's close on www.thingiverse.com to what I want and attempt to modify it for my needs. Usually modifying something is easier than creating from scratch. There are lots of models engines, box cars, coal hoppers, etc available for free on that site. Probably not necessarily in the scale you want, but you can play with scaling at least pretty easily.
Yeah, people have asked me to give my Corel Draw files away for laser cut kits before, and I have given away some, but I am reluctant because of this example: I made a Corel drawing for a Z Scale Centerbeam car model. I spent about 80 hours (I can do it much faster now that I have experience with Corel) getting it correct for the fit of my materials, and had laser cut lots of bad ones till I got it where I was happy. I sent 50 kits to Feather River train shop on the way to work, and at 10am I got a call asking for 100 more. When I got home from work I had an email asking for another 100 more. In all, over 2 years from then, I sold over 2000 of that first generation kit, which have since revised to be much more accurate. That recouped the cost of my first laser after paying my taxes, so proved lucrative. I now have 21 different body styles of Centerbeam car kits I can cut, so there is potential to sell a lot of them. I have not sold those kits for the past 10 years, so the pipeline is now empty, the designs are more accurate and updated materials available, so the next time I sell them the modeler will build nicer models, and I am now retired so have the time to do it and I can use the income to fund my own layout. (I also want to trade in my 21 foot 60hp pontoon for a 27 foot 300hp tritoon to ease my suffering across the lake ) If I were to sell one of those drawings for an exhorbinate price of say $500, the purchaser could start cranking out kits, and potentially sell a couple thousand himself to pay for his laser and materials, and when those are paid for, everything else is positive income off my work. In time the purchaser of my file could be running my Tritoon across the lake with a wine glass and a smile, while I get splashed by his wake! Instead, when I am too old and tired, or my kids ship me off to the old folks home, I am going to donate all my files to open source freeware sites as well as donate all my trains to my local NMRA, cause its more satisfying to give than to sell. Less grief too! OK, so I embellish a bit off the potential, but hey, why do you think software companies are turning to an annual licensing fee instead of their traditional no end single user purchase price. Bottom line is draw your own model drawings, you CAN do it, there IS a painful and time consuming learning curve, but you CAN SELL some afterwards to recoup your costs and efforts.
