1:29 Challenger Kitbash Help Needed

1:29 Yellowstone Kitbash

I am in need of assistance with a new project I have acquired.





My problem is the original builder used very early Pacific drive units and in building the Challenger he removed the motor mount areas. I don't know how he planned to power this thing but I could use some advise on how to complete it.

My current options as I see them are as follows:

1) rebuild the old blocks ( I need the drive shafts, bushings and motors). This requires finding a place in these areas for motors and mounts. Here are pics of the modified drive units.





2) Acquire new Pacific motor blocks and fit them. I forsee the same problem as above in that I will have to find a way to squeeze the motor and mount into those same saddle areas.

3) Convert an SD45 block to Pacific drive wheels. This would require removing the original SD45 mount tabs and fashioning new attachment points. However since the motors are internal to the blocks I won't have to locate space for them in the saddle areas.

I have compared the original blocks used, an SD45 block and a Mikado block. The spacing of the original Pacific units and the SD45 block are the same. I could possibly use an SD45 block turn the axles and drill for a cross pins and use the original Pacific wheels but think that might be more trouble than its worth. However depending on the availability or new Pacific drive wheels it may be the only option.

I am also looking for a Vandy tender for this loco. I have three long tenders to either trade or sell. One is a UP, the other a Great Northern and the last a Lablaw (?) lettered. UP is complete, the GN is just the shell and frame and the other is complete but no sound system inside. I can swap parts among any of them to get what someone may want.

Andre'

 

Wow! I am stunned. If this thing ran over your finger, it would hurt you. I am really looking forward to seeing how it is repaired.

 

Its kind of hard to tell but it looks like there were gear boxes on each axle? Perhaps he was going to power it with one motor in the middle and connect the gear boxes with some universals or something. Is this a possibility?

Eric

 

Here's the view of the area in question:





views of a Mikado block in position over the old Pacific blocks


As one replier noted...there were no Challengers with drive wheels the size of the Pacific. That being the case, plus the minor fact that I have one extra Mikado block already, I am leaning towards the use of Mikado blocks. The SD45 blocks still offer a benefit in that I wouldn't have to work out a scheme to fit the motor extensions in the tight places.

However using the Mikado wheels on an SD45 block might mean problems locating or making drive rods.

Decisions, decisions...



Andre'

 

after two evenings of scratching my head and judicious cutting and fitting I have the following:




next post is a few more pics and info

 

Once the rear drive was fitted I used the same Mikado block and started on the front drive unit.

I completed it this evening. No pics yet...
It was a bit more challenging as I had to cut the area holding the motor extension so it was still a one piece assembly. It had to hold the pilot, cylinders and motor block . Turned out quite well. I shall get pics tomorrow/

I think the cylinder and driver centerlines are close enough to work without problems.

I intend to redo the valve gear mounting also. The original builder used epoxy for much of the construction. Its not my first choice on styrene and when mating meatl to plastic I prefer and screw in addition to whatever glue is advertised to work!

Andre'

 

Well here's pics of last night's work:





I also played a bit with the rear drive assy. Someone ahead of me had cut a chunk out of the cylinder mounting area. I was able to reattach portions of what I cut off when fitting around the motor extension. I'll need to add some reinforcement pieces along side them to restore the cylinder mounting capability.

 

and another chapter in the saga....

It appears that I am indeed building a Yellowstone! After the reworking of the drive assemblies I discover the oriinal 4 wheel leading truck would no longer fit under the front pilot. Primarily this was due to the motor extension on the Mikado block.

This is how I modified the leading truck




Andre'

 

I also did some patch work around the rear cylinders as they mount area there had been cut up more than needed earlier.


The trailing truck needed a bit of work to convert it to 4 wheel and fit under the rear drive assy.




Finally this evening I did a test fit of all the trucks and drive assemblies, excluding the yet to be purchase front drive.

 

Did a little work over the weekend, Darn little since the other side of life got in the way too!

I discovered the stock Pacific's leading truck wheels were too large in diam to swing under the pilot on curves. I searched every wheel set on the pike and thru all the Gary Raymond sets I had too but to no avail. I was on LSC scrounging for smaller wheels from friends there and Norm reminded me of the AMS ore cars I had. Isn't it great when your friends know more about what you have than you do??

So back to the train room and lo and behold they are a perfect size !! Thanks Norm!

Their axles are smaller than the Aristo so a minor mod had to be done.



I did some more work on the patching on the rear drive mount


Then fit a Kadee to the front pilot


Andre'

 

I screwed and glued a mounting post to the rear of the motor block for the trailing truck


Then I cut out the windows on the cab modifications


I scrounged a Pacific backhead from the parts boxlocated it given the new cab and boiler work then did some detail painting

My work won't compare to Rex's or Rocky's but I am learning!

I really need to get that additonal Mikado drive unit......

 

WOOOOOO!

WOOOO! That’s quite the job you have done. There is an old saying, the right job for the right man. I think the locomotive is happy to have found someone who has the skills it takes to bring her to life. When its done you’ll have a real nice work of art. Something you can be really proud of! GREAT JOB!!!!!!!

PS.

You said you where learning from others ??? I wish I knew what you may have forgotten. Here I thought I was getting good at my projects…… OOOooooo…

 

The work continues....

As noted before I received a motor from Rocky for the Yellowstone. It came with a different hex coupling than the other two motors I have on the bench.

This new one has a coupling with a longer round section on the motor end of the hex section. I needed to replace a motor in the Mikado block being used on the Yellowstone as it ran twice as fast as the motor in the Mallett. This new motor can not be used to replace either of the other two as it won't allow the transmission assy. to slip into the brick.
here's the new motor coupling:



and the old:




the brass coupler has an open end so coupler can be pulled off with a puller.

New style is blind , no access to the shaft.

An email was zipped to Rocky looking for info on the loco this motor came out of. Rocky reported the motor with the black coupler is from a new Pacific. The other motor/coupler is from a Mallett.

I called Aristo and was emphatically told that they had made no changes , that the motor/couplers were the same from the Mallet/Mikado/New Pacific.

The evidence at hand tells a different story.

Received several tidbits from folks at LSC, MLS and Aristo forums. Suggestions included trying heat, cutting back the hex section until the shaft was exposed and then use a gear puller and pushing the coupler farther on the shaft to get the needed clearance.

Another option I toyed with in my head was removing it and turning down the offending added cylindrical length so the transmission seats properly. Doing so using the motor means death to the motor with all the swarf being sucked into the motor.

I could tape it all closed and drive the shaft with my small lathe and turn it down without removing it.

There is insufficient room on the shaft of the newest motor (black Coupler) to move it far enough to allow the transmission to slip into the brick when the motor and tranny are coupled.

Tried heat on the brass coupler and it came off after a short application of a heavy duty soldering iron. The new coupler wouldn't budge. Started to cut on the end of the coupler but I couldn't find the durn gear puller so figured that would just be a waste of time!

Wrapped the motor in tape all over and chucked the long end of the hex coupler in the Unimat threw a tailstock on the other and turned down the offending portion.

Made sure I cut enough so it wasn't putting pressure on the tranny as Leonard warned about. Thing fits in the block like it should now so will test it out in the morning as I am done in for this evening.

Attached is a pic of the modified coupler.



Thanks for all the assistance guys! Helps to work thru things with more minds on the job!

Andre'

 

Thought I had this brick problem licked.... Turns out a couple of the gear boxes in this Mikado block weren't quite right. Too much noise and the motor heated up too much. The Mallett motor ran cool so I knew there was a problem.

I pulled apart the gear boxes and found a couple bearings that were rough. This occurred as I was also working on two very early SD45s. They were howling and I had spun a few plastic coupler hex drives and stripped two worms in their gear boxes.

Using all ten I was able to put together 4 gear boxes. Put them in and the Mikado block sounded fine. Ran OK too until I put the cover on. Then the motor starts running hot.

After several evenings of diagnosis, notice I didn't say I was good at it, I discovered the last gear box was jamming against the top cover. The small outer raised ring around the flywheel hex coupler access wedged against the cover. Once corrected the cover fit better. Still ran too warm tho.

Started fiddling with the gear boxes' placement in the brick. Discovered the gear boxes are not all exactly the same size and neither are the recesses for them in the block. Finally found spots for each that allowed them all to have a bit of forward and aft movement within the block. I needed to turn back the collar on the motor hex drive just a bit more to ensure the first gearbox had the same amount of needed free play.

Buttoned it all up, ran the assembly for over an hour on the bench. Cool as the Mallett!

Leonard had warned me of this I think but I read it as only the flywheel shafts needed free play. It wasn't until I ran into the motor overheating problem that I got everything checked out.

If you are disassembling the block make sure you replace the gearboxes in their original spots. I assume the factory does the same "fitting" of the gearboxes to the block as I discovered was needed. You can probably mix them up as long as each has sufficient free play fore and aft. It appears from the work I did that they need to be able to move a distance about equal in depth to the small outer ridge around the flywheel hex access.

Andre'

 

It is an amazing project to me...still.

Back to the trailing truck. What did you use to splice the shortened truck frame? It looks like a piece of white styrene. What type of glue or mastic did you use as a fastener? Thanks.

Great to follow this thread. I'm subscribing to this thread right now in "Thread Tools" and I'm giving it a five star rating at the top in "Rate Thread." :thumbs_up:

 

Flash,

I used acrylic from a sign shop here in town. For glue I have been using glue for plastic plumbing and electrical pipe. Much cheaper than buying it in the small modeler's containers.

Thanks for the review. I took a hiatus for a month or so as we were gone for a portion of that time and I was doing a bathroom remodel for the rest. Now that the drive issues have been resolved I can get back to finishing the beast!!

Andre'