I am asking for advise on a project that I may of got into too deep. Out here in Kansas when our school districts consolidate or build new buildings they sell the old ones...some that are not too old. I purchased one for a good price with all intentions of building my dream N-scale layout. Now I know a lot of you would love to have some more space for your layout, but just planning this thing is a nightmare. If I didn't have a lot of money invested in N-scale engines, rolling stock, buildings, and other scale specific items, I would go HO just to fill up the space. I totalled the cost so far in just track and wiring for my basic plan and wonder if it might be too much to spend on my hobby. I also figure with myself working on it everyday for several hours or more it may take 15 years to complete. So my question is this, What is the maximum space an individual should try to use for a model railroad empire? A club might work but all other modellers around here are HO. Any suggestions? Dale S.
I have 33'x12x12 L shaped layout .. double decker www.csxfan.railfan.net Thats about as big as I would go .. especially if you are a lone wolf .. but .. I bet you could get some of those HOs to come help .. trains is trains
Exactly how big is your space? Ive seen plenty of huge layouts that had no flavour or detail to them. Just miles and miles of track and minimal scenery. I have also seen layouts that were not much more than a 4x8 that were incredible. Lots of fine detail and good weathering etc. Both probably took about the same amount of time to build. Between a super busy life working full time going to school and being married and having a teenager, I am lucky if I find time for a doorpanel sized layout. I can't imagine having your space to do a layout in. I'd probably use the space for more than just model railroading. Additionally, this is not a cheap hobby. I have many other interests in life. I cannnot imagine being able to afford a layout of the size you describe. I would consider making some friends who like trains and seeing if they would want to help you build the layout. Or maybe start a modular club and offer to let people use your space to house the layout. but this is just me speaking from my perspective. I have to say that your layout building is probably larger than my home. I am very jealous. Have fun
Too big? They don't seem too big while planning or even building, but maintaining a really big one is best left to a club, IMHO. Perhaps you can scale your plans back to something manageable. Then, make a design that will allow you to expand as you go. Build what you can. If it is enough, stop there. Otherwise keep going. You might also have a group of friends who come over regularly to help. It is really nice to have unlimited space. Most model rrer's don't have that problem. BTW, talk about big...I read about a model RR in Iowa about 30 years ago. The owner employed two carpenters full time for a year to build the benchwork. It was O scale and the owner had 50 UP Big Boys to run on the layout. That was a big layout. Also, hear about the one that was going to be built in a Titan missle silo? That was about two basketball courts. Maybe this needs another thread.
If you are building what it appears, HO modelers & friends may convert when they hear. Other option: offer part of the space to the HO modelers and both groups can work together to the benefit of all.
I agree...if the space permits, go with both scales. I think you'll get more help and you "maybe" can save money by utilizing the common resources (glue comes to mind).
friscoluvr, Large layouts typically get built with a good sized working crew - i.e. other dedicated local modelers who like to pitch in together, consistently, over time, to build a gem they all can enjoy. Maybe this is an opportunity? The Steven / Cynthia Priest basement layout was built in only about 4 years - because of the crew: http://emporiasub.com/ http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/005/075uagjt.asp The Rick Fortin huge Santa Fe HO layout also has a dedicated crew: http://www.lwmweb.com/sw&sf/pcr_open_house/pcr_tour.htm And the Mark Bridgewater Western Pacific N layout also has a crew: http://www.featherriverroute.com/ Let us know if that helps you. (smile)
With a large space, it seems you can simplify track planning by using broad curves, long switches, ample yards and passing sidings, and very little tricky track. I'm building in an 11' x 23' walled-off part of my garage. There are three decks along one long wall, and two decks on the other walls (with one short wall serving as transition between decks). I kept it simple, yet ended up with 850 feet of track and about 70 switches. With a decade of computer-aided-design experience, designing it wasn't a problem for me. As Flash pointed out, building it wasn't that hard; maintaining it can be a bit daunting. The smartest thing I did was recruit my wife to help me, especially on the scenery side. The second smartest thing I did was to mock up the layout with large sheets of cardboard. The dumbest thing I did was to use new construction techniques, like foamboard over wire closet racks. It looked attractive at the start: quick, accurate, sturdy--but how do you attach foamboard to wire racks? In the end, simple cantilevered shelves of wooden construction would have worked as well. The simple track plan saved me. You go from bottom to top on one track, and come down on the other. I can always add complexity later. My wife and I are somewhat of lone wolves due to unpredictable schedules and work loads. I calculated that I have about 330 square feet of layout "table" on the multiple decks--yes, that's 1.3 square foot of table for each square foot of the room--that happens with multiple decks. Actually, with "2.5" decks, I have about 0.5 square foot of table per "deck square foot." This is ideal for this space--there's enough aisle room that things don't get too crowded. JUst my $0.02.
Have you thought about making your layout a manageable-sized one with the capacity for a club type setting and then using the extra space to house an HO club? Not only would this help with your problem, but by charging the two clubs rent you have a financial backer for your new railroad. This would make your dream layout more of a do-able thing and you'd have help building it. You might even find a modular club that could set up in the mean time while your construction goes on so you can run trains. I've thought about doing this several times, but haven't been able to find the space to make it affordable. I know several guys that would pay an "affordable" amount per month for the ability to have a place to operate. Just a thought.
Everyone has their limit, no matter how much space, for me it is between 64 sq. ft and 128 sq. ft. I think I'd have real problems after reaching the area of two 4x8 sheets of wood. I would not try to do the whole thing at once, but would start with a point to point with turn around loops at each end. Would want some areas for industries, some city, country, larger sections, say, 8x3 or 8x2.5 joined by 1.5 sections to provide the run. Would want the run between locations to be at least 22 cars long, plus locos. Would start with that, add staging at each end or around the end. Would start it along a wall or in a corner as a L-shape. Would not attach permanently one end with turn around loop. Two sheets of plywood base, cut, would be 32 ft. linear layout, nearly a mile (33ft). I'd like to be able to view the trains run through over the entire main section. Branch lines from off the main. I don't have that many key scenes to model, much of what is in between is not interesting to me. That is where you should start, with your list of 3 or 4 must haves. Puma
I know of a saying that i use "Eat the Elephant" you could never eat an elephant in one go but you could in little pieces lol. That's how I have built my layout of the years. Rather than built a huge layout immediately I designed and built mine in stages. I dont move onto the next stage until the first stage is completed including wiring and scenery. You could also use part of the room as a lounge for people to sit around and read magazines or play train DVD's?. What about an small workshop to build kits or paint models? You can never have enough room but it doesnt have to be filled by layout.
Am wondering exactly how large the space is that you have available? One way to go about filling it, is to build a section at a time. Domino? Or some variation of that theme? But if it will take up your every spare waking moment, and constantly drain all spare funds, it certainly is too big. And will likely miss the entire point of it all. Which is having fun. Boxcab E50
Thanks for the suggestions so far. What a few of you may not understand is this is a whole grade school building...grades K-6. It is huge! My plans are to renovate one end (classroom end) into a possible living space. I have a rough drawing I made so you can tell what I have to work with. The hallway down the center is 220 feet...that would make a nice main run don't you think? Here is the link to my drawing http://myweb.cebridge.net/frisco/school.jpg As you can see the gymnasium was where I should put it, but after thinking I might want to use this large open space for other activities I started looking at the rest of the structure. Lots of rooms that could be interconnected by rail line. The HO guys in this area have a rotten attitude about n-scale and I asked a few if they would be interested in sharing but they don't like the idea of me owning the building and what if I would change my mind then they would have to move out. Plus out here in central Kansas the model railroaders are few and far between...it's not like a metro area. So I welcome any and all ideas, should I just use one or two rooms and be happy or go for the big one and have that 220 foot long run up one side and down the other? My old layout that is now disassembled was in a 40' x 65' building so I had a lot of scenery and structures from it...25 years worth. I just don't think people would let me loose anymore if I just threw that much good stuff away...guys with white coats might come take me away. Anyway...thanks for all the ideas. Dale S.
Thats really cool. I wish things like that could be found in Denver cheap. (*sigh*) I was telling my wife about your space and she said "we could move to kansas", but she's a Kansas city area girl. We sometimes talk about moving to Kansas city and buying an old warehouse somewhere. [ 03. February 2005, 22:34: Message edited by: traingeekboy ]
I suspected you meant a whole school building. Your experience with your 40' x 65' building is probably far beyond what many of us have experienced, unless we're working with a club. So, I'd go with your own experience. You obviously know that maintaining a building that size, let alone heating or cooling it, can get pretty expensive. I've had two friends go bankrupt when faced with roofing problems on buildings about that size. Please keep us posted with what you come up with.
You are in deep, but you can still recover. The nicest layout I saw was out in El Centro CA. The man has an S Scale layout that is super. The building is 40'x40', which is only a fraction of your size, but it is complete down to the flotsam in the streams The way he did the aisles, however was nice. Backdrops blocked the views across the room, and the aisles were normal sized and ended in cul-del-sacs so your buddies don't have to get too friendly. If you built a partition in the gym and dressed it up as a depot or something, with the train layout inside, perhaps you could contain your energy in one side of the gym. You could always add a freight shed later if you get the first part done. Tony Burzio San Diego, CA
Tony- Not a bad idea! There is a growing availability of S Scale items the past few years. Considering the space he could utilize, I am sure he'd have a really great layout. But in looking at S, he'd need to see that individual items cost a lot more than N scale............ So there is still that expense factor. For example- An N scale SW can be had for $20-30 via eBay, and some discount shops. But the same in S is $175-$200.00!!!! Boxcab E50
