Venting (with apologies)

silentargus Nov 30, 2015

  1. silentargus

    silentargus TrainBoard Member

    154
    76
    14
    Over the past few months since moving into my new place, I've been working on a very compact (4'x2') N scale layout because, well, I can. That's a big step for me.

    I've never been able to have a proper layout. I've plunked down track and wires all over whatever table was handy for a few days at a time now and again and whenever I could, but in twenty years and change I haven't had a place to set my trains up and leave them there... it wasn't until very recently that I had that. Now I do, and it still isn't enough. I guess it never will be. I'm starting to see why people spend decades on layouts just to rip them up and start over.

    I suppose I should be grateful that I have anything at all, but then I look at my one little corner of one little room and think "if only..." and get so annoyed that I throw my hands up and go do something else for a while. Little setbacks like discovering that the brand of spraypaint I tried to use as a primer coat on my terrain base actually melts the foam... then I don't get anything done for weeks (I detest painting. Least favorite thing in the world. Hate the smell, hate the texture, hate the mess- I got spray paint that was, according to a friend, safe on pink insulation board... because I didn't want to have to deal with regular liquid paints. And then had to anyway on top of wasting money and time on the spraypaint and ruined foam. Joke's on me, should've done my homework better). And don't get me started on how many times Real Life (tm) Problems have gotten in the way this year. I'm not even gonna start that whine-fest.

    Sometimes I've scratched the itch by building kits, or taking on repowering projects, or whatever else I could do to keep that spark... but sometimes it wears thin. Sometimes I wonder if the only thing I'm getting done is sinking thousands upon thousands of dollars into equipment that I'll never really be able to enjoy. And I do- every time I have space in the budget, I wind up with a few more cars, sometimes an engine, a building I thought would look cool if and when I had a place to build it... you know, wishful thinking. Then I go and do something stupid like melting a shell while I'm trying to get the lettering off, but that's neither here nor there.

    And then, to make everything that much better, I discover- after assembling my track to finalize my plan and (possibly) fix it in place... I discover that every single one of the #4 turnouts I bought is out of gauge. Straw, meet camel's back. I'm seeing red. It's Unitrack, for goodness sake! "It just works" is supposed to be the whole point of using the stuff! But no, every steam locomotive I own plus half the diesels and a good 20% of the rolling stock jumps the frogs, or picks the points... or both, and when I slow everything down and put my eye to the rails I can see exactly where the problems are. Checked everything again with a standards gauge... yup, it's the turnouts. After I finish yelling at the walls, I'm completely deflated again. Did I just get a bad batch? Am I really going to have to file down the frogs and points of nine different turnouts that were supposed to be ready for use out of the package? I guess I should be glad I had the presence of mind to test everything first, because how much worse would it have been if I'd glued the track down before discovering this, but still... damn.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up. I've had the train bug all my life, and track problems are not going to be the end of me. It's just that sometimes I think that something has to be wrong with me- spending money on a hobby that seems to make me swear more than it makes me smile! And yet every time I look at my collection I think "I need two more of these and six more of these" and get excited like a little kid whenever a package shows up in the mail! I know I'll go back to it... I'm just having trouble even looking at the whole mess right now.

    Ugh... sorry to rant. Just going through a bit of a rough patch and wishing Atlas hadn't been out of stock when I was buying track, wishing I had space for a HCD and more reasonably-proportioned turnouts, or any one of a bunch of other otherwise-minor irritations that have just seemed to all pile up and fall on my head at the same time. Sometimes I wish I'd taken up a less stressful hobby, like brain surgery. I think I'm gonna go blow off some steam like I usually do, by buying another few pieces of rolling stock. :rolleyes:
     
    FriscoCharlie likes this.
  2. jpwisc

    jpwisc TrainBoard Member

    1,766
    452
    35
    Remember, it's a hobby, when it's not fun set it aside. Buy stuff, have it ready, so when it is fun you can make crazy progress.

    Try a modular design. I started building my current layout 6 years ago, 1600 miles from where I am not. The pieces didn't fit in the house I had, but I built them anyway. Now they are all coming together. Any progress is good progress.
     
  3. Eagle2

    Eagle2 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    5,727
    479
    82
    Did you get the turnouts local or mail order? It may be worth a call to ask about return policy, explain the problem and maybe exchange them? Offered as food for consideration.

    And I think, at at least one point, all of us have hit a similar point in some hobby. For me, those moments (yes I meant to use the plural) keep me dabbling in multiple hobbies, so that if one becomes too frustrating or gets boring I can switch focus for a bit.
     
  4. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    67,560
    22,734
    653
    Wow. I can see why you are venting! :(
     
  5. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

    1,685
    748
    45
    UNITRAK #4s are bad news. Many B-manns, even a few Katos and almost all LLs will derail on them. The #6s are no problem. If you have enough room for #6s, use them.
     
  6. hoyden

    hoyden TrainBoard Supporter

    815
    778
    30
    I remember learning the lesson that paint melts foam. So does contact cement and acetone. I decided never to use foam again, for this and several more reasons.
     
  7. TwinDad

    TwinDad TrainBoard Member

    1,844
    551
    34
    Remember, too, that you are climbing up a steep learning curve, and quickly. Every time you cuss, you have just learned something that (hopefully) you will not repeat. Each time you go back, you will get a little further, a little faster, and learn more new things. You'll never stop cussing, but you WILL look back and realize how easy the things that used to frustrate you now seem to be.

    Hang in there. Keep working at it.
     
    subwayaz likes this.
  8. subwayaz

    subwayaz TrainBoard Member

    3,222
    106
    44
    Hang in; know that you're not alone. Allow yourself the frustration walk away and by the time you go back you will have new fresh ideas and as stated get further and faster
     
  9. Maletrain

    Maletrain TrainBoard Member

    734
    340
    18
    Sounds VERY familiar. Any chance of hooking-up with some other modelers in your area? A bit of help, a bit of tutoring, and some company in your misery could go a long way.

    Steve
     
  10. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

    9,511
    5,673
    147
    All to familiar.

    One of the first lessons we learn is smaller is not better. #4 switches are the worst switches and 18 inch radius in HO and the almost equivalent of 9 3/4 inch in N scale is to tight a radius curve. The out of gauge question will be a fight to the finish. More arguments regarding this issue then there is model train equipment.

    One of the reason I went to Kadee wheel sets in HO and Micro-Trains in N scale, Unitrack #6 switches (not turnouts) and Peco medium and larger switches. True!

    I've found myself pounding my head on the wall wondering what the HELL! Why do I do this? What kind of hobby is this?

    I sit beside the railroad tracks and watch the crews spot cars, full loads in or out and empties either spotted and removed. Wondering what in the wide, wide world of sports uhh...err model railroading is the attraction?

    Read my lament on BarstowRick.com. That is if you want to continue to beat yourself up while I beat myself up. In the last 60 years my hobby experience has been a bitter bill to swallow. My sucker light has been on more times then it's been off. In the time I've been in the hobby, we've gone through some serious stuff. Junk that should of found the bottom side of a trash can and yet we continued to buy it and re-work everything. Rebuild that chassis, wait for Kato to put out an authentic Santa Fe Northern. Micro Trains to put out an authentic AT&SF heavyweight RPO car. Same company to put out an authentic SP Baggage Car or Mail Storage Car. I got tired of being MR. FIX IT!

    Today I can say I'm happily operating with N scale and most of my stuff is off the shelf, ready to roll. Yes, I still play MR. FIX IT. Someone has to switch out those awful Rapido Couplers to Knuckle Couplers. You guessed it, I'm not happy about that but that's just the nature of the beast. Don't get me started about Traction Tires, the worst curse to befall model railroaders. Ok... for Toy Trains but not my stuff.

    No apologies needed for venting your feelings. There is an army of us who will be more then happy to stand beside you. And to encourage you to hang in there with us. Grin!
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  11. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

    739
    16
    16
    I fully sympathize with your frustrations. We have all been there, are there and will continue to be there at some point or another. I have been involved in numerous hobbies during my lifetime and I can tell you they all produced frustrations to some degree. Some days I cannot even demolish something without getting frustrated. So my attitude is I fight the good fight and drive on ... you know what I mean. When it is all said and done I will continue to enjoy my passion and no one and nothing is going to stop me.

    Sounds like you enjoy collecting locos and rolling stock. Invest in a display case that can be mounted on your living room wall where you can continually view your favorite equipment. Swap items out regularly. When it comes to layouts keep in mind size does not always yield more enjoyment. There is nothing wrong with a coffee table layout where you can enjoy running trains. See my thread on tweaking the Kato Unitrack #4 switch. Since using this technique I have had no issues with using the #4 switch. Problem solved! http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/how-i-tweak-a-kato-unitrack-4-switch.62121/
     
    silentargus likes this.
  12. Run8Racing

    Run8Racing TrainBoard Member

    1,018
    609
    29
    Been there, done that, and bought the T-shirt !!! After reading the OP, Amanda and I sat back with a couple of beers and laughed at some of my past "adventures" !!! I remember when I decided to convert everything but the cat to M/T couplers. Most are VERY easy to do. Sometimes it took longer to round up the tools than to actually do the job. And then there were others !!! Kato GG-1, Bachmann 4-8-4 pilot, and my least favorite, 1128s on anything !!! I would pull all-nighters in the train room, cussing in 4 different languages (English, Italian, Spanish, and German} !!! Amanda says I must have gotten better at it. I only use 2 languages, now !!! I have watched paint and other chemicals do INCREDIBLE things to shells. Had the cat "drink" some EJ&E decals out of my tiny soaking bowl. Had to disassemble and clean the lead truck of my favorite Kato E8 after hitting a Wolf spider (this has happened twice !!!). There are MANY more I could mention. This could almost be a whole new thread on TB !!! Don't feel like you're Charlie Brown, and this stuff only happens to you. When you get mad, step away. It may take 5 mins, or 2 weeks to calm down. Trust me, one day you will sit back and laugh about it, also !!!
     
  13. Jeepy84

    Jeepy84 TrainBoard Member

    1,051
    129
    25
    Filed my #4 points to actual points, and the few times I used them on my temp layouts since, my Athearn 2-8-0 let alone the diesels negotiate them without issue.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
     
  14. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

    5,677
    580
    82
    With the track problem I'd also examine what locos you have. Before I had a layout I collected a lot of different brands. In the end I realized the only ones worth having were my Atlas and Kato diesels. Other brands may be cheaper, but they just don't perform like a good loco.

    I have a box of foam in my basement and have come to the conclusion that I do not like foam scenery. There is a lot to be said for the old methods like hardshell. I actually look forward to eventually getting my hands covered in plaster again.

    As to buying stuff. Buying stuff is just buying stuff.

    Space just needs to be examined properly. In N scale you can build a huge switching layout on a 6 inch wide shelf. So maybe you have your small oval on one end, but connect it to a long and narrow shelf. If you do it at chest level it won't even interfere with furniture.

    I realize you're doing N scale since this is posted in N scale. But it's worth checking out some of the shelf layouts in the HO scale section.

    http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/river-harbor-belt-line.74089/

    http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/building-the-andersley-western-railroad.77567/

    But I've been where you are with this hobby that's for sure.
     
  15. umtrr-author

    umtrr-author TrainBoard Member

    2,835
    3,394
    78
    I use the squeeze bottles of acrylic paint, available at most big box craft stores and at least one "Mart," to paint foam. No smell, no melting, no worries. (I didn't say "no mess," but hey, it's paint.) More colors available than I'd ever be able to use.
     
  16. silentargus

    silentargus TrainBoard Member

    154
    76
    14
    Thanks for the kind words (and tips- especially Jerry Tarvid on the #4 turnouts!) everybody. A few days doing anything else was exactly what the doctor ordered.

    I think if I'd known how annoying the #4 turnouts could be beforehand, I'd have gone with something different, but with the small space... I just don't know that I could have fit as much activity into the surface area with #6s. I almost did go with a shelf plan, but in the end decided that I had to have a loop for roundy-rounding- but a plain boring racetrack plan wasn't going to cut it either. This had to be a layout that scratched multiple itches, because it's probably going to be my only place to run N scale for a while. I have it wired for DC or DCC such that a small switcher like my 44-tonner can work the sidings at the front of the table while a local freight runs around the loop to the back. I didn't have too many issues with version 1, but then I decided I wasn't satisfied and added several facing-points... I didn't really notice the frog-jumping until then, either, because if it jumps going the other way it just rerails itself anyway. Then when I looked closer I noticed that they were all doing it... hence the freak-out. I wasn't half as freaked when I wrote that post as I was when I first noticed it, though- I have plenty of files and Dremel attachments, but I'm not set up to re-gauge wheels!

    I have a pretty broad cross-section of different brands as far as motive power goes, although not a huge number of each (I'm working on getting display cases, attractive woodwork not really being a strength of mine- I have a little one that fits a few things, but that's it). Some Bachmanns, Katos, LL, post-Kato Atlas, FVM (a MILW A), some tweaked and un-tweaked Minitrixes, and a few brass. My six-axle diesels and larger steamers aren't going to be running on this layout anyway (even though they can handle the radius, my Kato FEF-3, Bmann J, and LL 2-8-8-2 all just look silly)- I actually tried my Atlas Trainmaster and, while it took the curves, the trucks swung out so wide that the bronze whiskers popped out of place and were riding next to the contact tabs instead of on top of them... which was more trouble to fix than it sounds like it should have been. My Kato E8s will take the curves, but won't stay coupled around them... and anything they look good pulling looks ridiculous on that small of a curve anyway. The four-axle units are running fine even though the wheels are very obviously popping up out of the flangeways when they pass through each turnout- which in retrospect tells me exactly what needs filing if I look closely enough (the first thing I did when I calmed down a bit).

    The outside rails aren't too close together, the guard rails are too close to the outside rails... which should be far easier to fix; just shave a little off the inside of each guard rail. Or, I don't know... it might be easier to just file off the guard rails entirely and replace them with thinner material. I'll have to see if I have a file skinny enough to fit between the rails. If #4 turnouts are just generally troublesome, as you've all indicated is the case, then I don't think I'll bother trying to return them... better to just get it over with than wait weeks or months to just have to deal with the same problems again. I wish I had room to do what I wanted with #6s, for looks as much as for performance, but 2'x4' is just too small a footprint. I guess breaking out the files will just be the compromise in all of this.

    Thinking about it a little bit more, I could also add stiffer springs to the pilot trucks on my steamers- which wouldn't help with the frogs, but would definitely help with the point-picking, which hasn't been a problem for my diesels. I could also add a few removable weights to the cars, since I won't be pulling more than six or eight at a time on this small of a loop anyway. If I do that, I might not even have to mess with all of the points. Or, hopefully, any of them.

    Just in the interest of sharing... I think my favorite screw-up (well... favorite now) was one day when I was stripping several different shells at once, and I got it in my head to use a buffing wheel on my Dremel tool to make it go faster... which worked great on the two Minitrix B6 shells, since they're cast metal. The paint just disappeared! Then, without thinking about what I was doing, I did the same thing to a plastic Doodlebug shell and turned the whole front end into mush before I could stop myself (I keep telling myself that the back half is going to become an awesome roadside train car diner some day:whistle:). Lesson learned: if you think you've hit on a quick new trick to cut through a tedious chore, the only thing you're cutting through is your wallet.
     
  17. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

    5,677
    580
    82
    With my N scale locos I had a huge discovery upon completing my track work - most of the locos were actually slightly wide gauged. It was such a fine amount that I could not see if with a NMRA gauge.

    When I had this problem. I could not see what was the cause. I blamed the track. I also started a huge rant here on train board. I was about ready to give up on model trains forever.

    My cure was to turn a loco upside down and hold a switch upside down on the wheels and see what was going on from all angles. Consider adjusting your diesel wheels first, and if that does not work, then do the track.

    It does not make sense for your rolling stock to clear the switches and the locos not to.

    Witha tighter radius you will need a little more slop on the diesel wheels so they can align right. Diesel trucks are longer than rolling stock trucks, so a tiny adjustment should go a long way and changing the gauge of diesel wheels is much easier than grinding down track.

    All of my rolling stock was using low profile wheels and axles. All my track was Atlas C55, which has much tighter tolerances than c80.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2015
  18. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

    4,153
    1,149
    74
    Yep... I've had some similar rants over the past 20 years... Still don't have a 'truly' running layout.
    Have more stuff than I can fit on a hanger-sized layout. Still enjoy the hobby as a partial 'arm-chair' model railroader.
    The joining a club or finding other N scalers in your area would be helpful though.
    That could help 'get you over the hump'... and actually finish a small layout.
    Here's a sample of a small 2' x 4' layout built by club members to put on exhibit at model train shows:
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

    4,153
    1,149
    74
    Here's another view. BTW... the track is Kato Unitrack
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Espeeman

    Espeeman TrainBoard Member

    1,042
    90
    33
    Ahhh, Kato #4's! I had to file every one of mine down. Someone posted a series of pictures on this site many years ago on how to do it pretty easily. It worked for me. I had a fairly large layout in my basement and used them in the yard and the branch line. But as life goes I needed to make space and ended up disassembling that layout. I've since been building one on a 36" wide HCD and have found that it keeps me satisfied (it had to have a view block on it, though!)

    I joined a club not long after I moved here and have since built a module. One of the things that I've always been hesitant about is scenery. After nearly 40 years of seeing all those great layouts in the modeling magazines I developed a sense that it had to easy but I wasn't good enough to get those kind of results, and I was absolutely right! I wasn't. But one thing that happened while at a club members house while his wife was working on the scenery for his module. She took an electric carving knife to the foam and i asked her "what happens if you make a mistake?" She looked at me with an odd expression and said so matter-of-fact "I do it again". Man, that one sentence changed everything for me! In less than six weeks I completely sceniced my module for the NMRA show (we had six clubs in the southeast joint modular layouts together. It was awesome!). My motto was that I knew I would be tearing everything I did out and starting over again but i went at it with gusto. The interesting thing was that I didn't redo anything. So what I'm getting at is this. Go for it! Make a mess. make a huge mess! then do it again, and again if necessary! You might find you like what you did the first time but go at it like you know you'll have to do it again and learn from your mistakes. It's the best way for me to learn and I'd imagine others would agree. DCC has made me loose my temper more times than i care to think but after a while it kinda "set in". Now it seems pretty easy. I guess it's like that with all things until we get the hang of it.
     

Share This Page