New 12 x 32' layout

Having recently acquired some space I am starting to plan a new railroad. My last one was a 16' x 21' around the ceiling "layout" with a double track main. Each main had a passing siding, mostly for storage. Ten inches from the ceiling was not ideal but it was the only space available. It was a loop runner layout but I managed to operate some commuter train schedules. Just takes some imagination up there.
Now I have a 15' x 41' room but I am earning it. The basement had a water problem, now solved, that required removing all the mouldy drywall. Now while putting up the new drywall it is time to make plans for the new RR. When complete, the main room will have a usable space of 12' x 32'. I model in S hi-rail so that is a substantial but not gigantic space.
The inspiration for the RR will be the Pittsburgh to Beaver Falls PA PRR line along the Ohio river from the late 40s to late 50s. The old Ft Wayne line. I saw and played around these tracks as a kid. Many pennies and even Nickels were smashed on them. The new railroad will have a double track main to replicate the four track main along that line. There will be cliffsides and retaining walls, below-grade urban trackage and elevated urban trackage. I have some specific industries in mind to serve and would like to be able to do a little way freight switching along with the primary commuter and through passenger train schedules. The Urban end of the layout will have some kind of through passenger station as Pittsburgh does. The double main will allow a passenger train on one track to be rolling scenery while way freight switching is done. It will be a one operator railroad 90% of the time.
Initial ideas include
- a twice around for a longer mainline run. The will require a duckunder or lift bridges
- a dogbone; shorter main line but it could then be a walk-in
- a double dogbone; might be too busy with track
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. If anyone can recommend planning software that supports elevations and 3D views that too would be appreciated.

Tim Benner
Jackson, MI

 

This is the rough sketch. Sorry about the photo. My scanner quit working when the XP box retired.

Each small square is 1 foot. All utilities except the breaker boxes are neatly tucked away.

 

Tim
Do a Google/browser search for layout plans to fit your room size. There should be plenty of PRR plans out there also, maybe even one on your area. Most layout cad programs have what can be to some a very long learning curve. But you can find them by doing search on this or any of the other MR forums. Also try this in Google: "model railroad cad programs". And see if you can find any HO pennies & nickles to smash under your wheels. LOL
Just saw your sketch. Think about going loop to loop w/ a peninsular down the middle You should ne able to climb around the walls to two or more levels.

 

When you say 'S Hi Rail' do you actually mean American Flyer with the metal crossties ? I can't see much flexibility in this type of track. If it is AC current, you'll need to add gapped block sections to segregate locos. I'm wondering why not go over to HO and have a larger RR in the same given space and DCC control (no gaps except reversing sections) ?

 

Thanks for the replies!

The loop to loop idea with a center peninsula is promising and makes me want to grab a tablet and start scratching. The benchwork would resemble the letter E.

S hi-rail is S scale (1/64) equipment running on track that is a bit large for scale. Sort of like HO running on Atlas code 100 flextrack. I will be using American models flextrack which is code 148. Code 100 is the commonly used S scale rail and the S scalers, who are generally fine scale modelers, would be offended by calling a layout using code 148 rail "scale". The advantage of the oversize rail is you can run oversize flanges. So you can use American Flyer equipment if desired. The flanges on newer hi-rail equipment are much closer to scale than the Flyer pizza cutter wheels. I have both. The railroad will be wired with basic blocks for both AC and DC, and wired substantially enough for conversion to DCC. Initially is will be run on AC with TMCC.

I have considered going to HO because of the availability of anything you can think of. For instance, if you want a PRR G5s ten wheeler in HO it is available. In S, you're searching for a brass model that likely is not available at this time. On the other hand, in the 6 years of running the ceiling level layout I gradually switched from S tinplate to running hi-rail equipment that would actually run at scale speeds. Then the Flyer engines were motored down and/or geared down to be able to run at scale speeds. There is a lot of time and money tied up in that equipment. So while the switch to HO is tempting, it's hard to let go. I plan on a 16' x 16' HO layout in the adjacent room down the road. Right now there is a 4 x 6' HO layout in there that I built with my kids in the 90s. It has survived 3 moves and gives me a train fix when needed.

The track planning web search keeps turning up AnyRail. It looks easy enough. Anyone have experience/feedback on it?

Tim Benner
Jackson, MI

 

Tim,
I have been using AnyRail for a few years and really like it. The AnyRail forum is pretty good for getting assistance.

 

The fact that you are doing S scale is very interesting. Keep us posted on progress. It should be cool to see this develop into a layout.

 

The Any rail price tag has paid for itself considering the paper and pencils I've saved in the last couple years, ha!

 

AnyRail is installed and did a decent job of drawing the basement and a layer for the layout area. The next posts will have the layout area with proposed aisles and openings. I'll have to buy the full version of AnyRail before laying track I'm running out of objects before even getting to track. And yes, it does look to cost less than a couple of sizeable pads and pencils. The squares are 1 ft.

Tim Benner
Jackson, MI

 

This is a first attempt at adding track with AnyRail. No yard or industries yet, just the main. To me it looks like an uninspired twice-around. But what the heck... it is a first go at it. Maybe it is a mistake to try and stay with wide radius curves? Outer curves are 42 and 40" radius. It is also surprising that almost the whole main has to be at a slope to keep the grade percentages down. The total track length at this point is 224' so it is a 112' main. That's 1.36 miles in S scale.

The left side of the layout will be urban. The top main there will be elevated. The bottom will be below grade. The below grade track is inspired by the PRR main going through an urban cut in West Park on the Northside of Pittsburgh. I plan to add industries and a yard to the drawing but not sure if this mainline is ready for or merits that kind detail.

Any and all comments criticism and advice are welcome. After refining this concept a little, the next go will be a loop-to-loop with a center peninsula.

Thanks and regards,

Tim Benner
Jackson, MI

 

Funny, I read that as 12X32 inches and got all excited to see what could be done in that space!

lol

 

I'm very excited to see how your layout turns out! I am about an hour and 45 minutes from you Tim, so maybe we could have an operating session sometime once track is laid. Keep us updated!

 

It took longer than expected to finish the train room. At this point it is ready and my old AF tinplate layout is sitting on about 2/3 of the L-girder benchwork needed to support the attached layout. The drawing is just the mainline so far. About 170' times two tracks. Still to be worked out are sidings and some kind of approach to staging under the single blob.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Tim Benner
Jackson, MI

 

An interesting plan, Tim...I ran (and spent a lot of time waiting) on those very rails from 1974 to 2007...how big a kid are you now ? Like your ideas, though am slightly un-savvy about the 'S' gauge/scale track and scenic space requirements. Will be following your project with interest (giving any solicited advice I can provide - IF you can get my attention - am adult ADD, or sumpin' !) BOb

 

Photos will be forthcoming. I have a kitchen full of appliances to install before I get back to building benchwork. But management did approve the purchase of 5 cases of track and roadbed. I need to get this master plan right before committing to cutting subroadbed.

Looking at it just now it looks like the curve between New Brighton and Rochester is too far from the wall. That will need to move back so the track at Avalon can be reached.

Bob -
Feeling very fortunate indeed that you responded. It is a rare opportunity to get feedback or input from someone who actually saw the real thing from that side of the rails. I am a 61 year old kid now, no longer putting pennies on the track. There is a branch line close by that serves an oil storage facility. I think train-watching there might bring an unfriendly visit from the authorities these days.

S Scale is more or less 50% larger than HO. The stacked loops will be urban. The rest of the scenery will be mostly cliffsides and steep hils on one side and riverbank on the other side of the tracks. I would consider any advice from you solicited and welcome. As you know I have left out a few locations trying to keep them far enough apart so the end of a train is not still at the last station when the train stops at the next. (except between Emsworth and Clifton which served the same community) I have only three industries firmly in mind for a local to switch:

- Ben Avon Lumber in Ben Avon of course. (burned down in the late 70s-early 80s) I seem to remember a spur there.
- Tejan Coal in Emsworth. By the "new" Emsworth station. They were still delivering residential coal when I was really young.
- Sterling Varnish Co. between Glenfield and Sewickley

Any other industries you know of further down the line or between Federal St. and Avalon would be a great help. Were there any interchanges? My memories of further down the line are sketchy. Never got close to the tracks down there. I always strained for a view from a moving car on Ohio River Blvd.

Thanks.

Tim Benner
Jackson, MI

 

Hi, Tim ! Am gonna have to (gladly) do some diggin' through my stuff. Just off the top of my head...Sterling Varnish at Haysville is defunct, but the building(s) is still there: http://tinyurl.com/om6vm3t ...(switched cars there some time ago !), and toward Pittsburgh, the Emsworth Station is still there, along with the Emsworth Dam...and further, at CP Bell (ex-Jacks Run Tower) - Vernor Yd. (rail/barge coal xfer), teh Mon Line connection via the overhead wye and the "OC" bridge, Island Ave. Yd. - once quite sizable with complete engine facilities/roundhouse, etc., and (once) Federal St. Station - Eastern terminal of the PFW&C Ry. with a single ended express yard, and the Conemaugh Line and the 'ramp' from "Federal St" tower to the Ft. Wayne bridge and the Pittsburgh 'Union' Station. 'Course, a lot of this data is date-sensitive as to existence, use and other particulars - and too granular for what you want. Dates would help, but your scale, space and ambitions will limit what's useful to you. I have some stuff back to the '40s and beyond (IF I can find it !) and, hopefully, a working scanner. Meanwhile, Google Maps is your friend...for general, contemporary data - a lot of the old sidings/yards have been changed/removed, but the main track alignments are evident - and because of your passenger interest, you might enjoy this page/site: http://www.west2k.com/pastations/allegheny.shtml ...if you haven't run across it already. BOb

 

This is version 2. It doesn't look much different but some of the curves have been tightened (none tighter than 34" radius) and some industries added. A passing siding halfway between the two end loops has been added. Heights above the floor have also been added. Still to be determined is where to switch off the main to get to the staging yard. In this version it would take about a 2.5% grade to get from the main to staging with a LOT of hidden track. I could use some advice on that. The crossover/bridge was just so it would have a RR over RR bridge - a scenic feature even though it does not exist there on the prototype.

So version 3 is in the works. In it I will:
- eliminate the crossover bridge
- eliminate some of the elevation changes
- change location of some of the stations
- possibly eliminate Avalon and add Jack's Run tower (even though there is nothing for it to control... maybe tracks into the scenery to represent the junction to the Ohio Connecting RR?)

Anyone else have ideas?

Thanks and regards,

Tim Benner
Jackson, MI