http://www.trainboard.com/highball/...-mikado’s-–-reduced-prices.85075/#post-937187 Makes one wonder why they'd pay that much for PRC plastic when you can get brass for about the same...... I know..."plastic is the new brass".
Well,let's see... 1.As mentioned,these well sell for much less than list price(I've already seen them advertised for $230) The Bachmann locos are Pennsylvania,the ones you linked to are Santa Fe. The Bachmann locos include DCC and sound.
Value sound you'll probably rip out and replace anyway. Nobody models Pennsy anymore, right? One of those brass engines was the same as the "deep discount" PRC plastic you are referring to.....
Thanks all for the replies. I guess it makes some sense for B-Mann to follow the "do it in one scale, do it in the other" business model, but how long will it hold up? Athearn said they were doing the same some years ago, but stopped after the BigBoy. I've heard that they are going back to it now, but am not 100% convinced. B-Mann seems to change their mind even faster, so just how long will they stick with it. More N steam is always better, but I feel at some point we'll all be saddened when they quit. Oh, and for the record, I do model Pennsy, and have a very nice Arnold GG1 that's been re-motored, re-wheeled, re-painted (and decaled), and re-paographed so you have to look closely to tell apart from it's Kato stablemates...... Bronzemeister
Some people are perfectly happy with value sound decoders. If nobody models the Pennsy, then why do so many people ask for Pennsy steam? I saw three locos in your link: $325, $295, and $435. Where's the one for $230? Oh, and I thought of another - that brass is used, not brand new with a factory warranty.
Trainboard advertiser Trainworld is accepting backorders for the Bachmann PRR 4-6-2 at $229.99: http://www.trainworld.com/search/?q=bachmann+prr+4-6-2
Are you referring to a PRR Budd baggage car or PRR Budd's in general? Some of the nicest Budd coaches (real) I've ever worked on were the PRR Congressional Limited fleet that went up through Amtrak and were the 'last ones out' of the Amtrak Heritage fleet - some as bicycle carriers. Two of them ended up down in West Virginia on the South Branch Valley, and at least two more ended up on Tacoma Rail. Very nice, solid, well-designed, fluted-roof Budd cars, and if you looked closely, you could still see the PRR Keystone in paint stripe - etched into the stainless. But yeah, looking at the PRR Budd orders, baggage cars don't seem to be in there....every shot I see of a Congressional has standard PRR baggage cars in it, if any. http://www.american-rails.com/images/CGLSeabrookGG1.jpg http://www.american-rails.com/images/CGLWUTCMTR.jpg
The cars shown in the Bachmann advertising don't seem to match any of the PRR Budd cars. They also can't be B&O cars (didn't buy Budd), so my guess is that they are based on ATSF prototypes (on the grounds that one of the liveries would be prototypical). The round-end observation car with taller windows at the end doesn't appear to match anything that the PRR had. The only round-end one was the single POC85. The Congressional cars had blunt ends. The coach appears to have less windows than any coach the PRR had, and is likely for use in long-distance trains. PRR used the P85B/BRs for that duty. It doesn't match the P82/P85/P85H/P85R (not enough big windows) or the P85D (right number of big windows but not enough small ones). It also doesn't match the Congressional PL85 lounge car. PRR didn't buy any lightweight baggage cars, Budd or otherwise, and if they had it would likely have been something shorter than 85'. Adrian
No it doesn't. Those two have long had their own factories (I believe that has since changed), where many of the others share one.
I "think" these are the ex-PRR/PC/Amtrak "Congressional" coaches...... http://evergreenrr.blogspot.com/2013_06_01_archive.html The South Branch Valley 7600 and 7605 were the two I picked out of the lineup at Bear, MD. The PRR keystones were still barely visible on the sides, and I had full car history on those. Another car we wanted ended up going to Tacoma. This was the last big batch of Amtrak heritage coaches sold off. One of them had some pretty significant fire damage and Illinois Transit Assembly did the roof repairs on the fluting. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1254714 Yeah, they're a Budd, but that's probably where all the similarity stops. I'm not sure what the closest model would be to the appropriate PRR plan. No secret that I'm a Santa Fe fan, so to find PRR Budd cars that were as well-built was a pleasant surprise.
A dumb use of factory time, regardless of whether you own it or not, is still a dumb use of factory time. In fact, it's even worse for those that *don't* own their own factory. They don't have the luxury for "pet projects". And they've all done things that make us scratch our heads. You know, the stuff that we see clogging the tables at every train show that doesn't sell and everybody knew it wouldn't. Yes, those.
Why don't you pony up the money to buy a factory then. Financially, it doesn't make sense for most MR companies, which are one or two man shops (FVM, Bluford, etc.). You guys all act like this industry is multi-million dollar. It's not even close. Sharing the expenses of a factory and buying time is cost effective. Every company I've worked for in the past 15 years has moved to some sort of sharing resources model.
Once again, you are arguing a point I'm not making. For the record I've never "acted like this industry is multi-million dollar". Not. Even. Close. Nor do I care whether they share resources or whatever. Not. One. Bit. Still doesn't change the fact that when you're using factory time for a "bad decision" then your customers aren't gonna have pity on you when you use shortage of factory time as an excuse. Now, if you want to argue what a "bad decision" is, well then let's get at it. I say an n-scale GG1 is a bad decision. A really bad one. I say "Allegheny Midland" ES44's and other fantasy locomotives (that typically go straight to fire sale status) are bad decisions. I think cars and locomotives with major decoration issues are bad decisions. (if the wait for factory time is so great, there should be ample time to double and triple check your work) I think 50's era boxcars with 2000's era graffiti on them are bad decisions. I think boxcars with door rails in the wrong place are bad decisions. I think releasing products made from tooling over 30 years old is (almost always) a bad decision. I think GP38-2's with major spotting features missing are bad decisions. I think using "the box of 8 crayons instead of the 64" when attempting to paint match is a bad decision. Ha, I don't even know how to respond to that. That gets thrown around a ton on the forums and I just really have never understood why that's a defense for something? Customers criticize manufacturers in every industry....why in this one are we required to buy a factory when we do so? lol
No, you do care if they sharing resources. You say so, "A dumb use of factory time, regardless of whether you own it or not, is still a dumb use of factory time." Orders need to meet minimums. Sometimes running fantasy schemes fills those production run orders. So what appears as mountains of fantasy schemes sitting on shelves is low inventory from the get go. Ar they a waste? I'd agree yes, but I'd rather see some waste if it means the entire run might have been cancelled. I'm not even going to argue about the Bachmann GG1. I scratched my head on that the minute I saw it. Clearly someone in Product Development has decided there's a market for it. I'm not sure he/she should be working there anymore. As for using old tooling, as a MT Rep has stated in other forums, those molds and runs keep the ship afloat and can finance new project tooling. It's a double edged sword. And clearly someone out there buys the stuff. Thank the collectors, I guess.
You really can't see it. Even the 295....compared to the deeply discounted 230....and nobody knows until the PRC stock market free fall hits bottom where that price will end up....but it's brass...and you're talking PRC plastic......for 230? "Some people" like Value Sound? Are you one of them, or just a spokesperson? When you're talking Bachmann, who cares? Yeah, I know, becomes a big deal when you have a $400 MSRP..but how long are the PRC electronics warranted for? One of those things that changes with the currency value, it seems. You get a non-Spectrum engine....and they don't do another run...and you get to pay how much for warranty after the initial free bit expires...and they send you an "equivalent value"...so you end up with a CSX diseasemal?
Folks, let's get back on point here. Talk about the issue at hand, express your opinion, that's fine. Edge into personal attacks, not fine.
You're right, I don't see it. You said "...when you can get brass for about the same..." - I don't see $295, and certainly not $300-400, being "about the same" as $230. Is the brass worth the price difference? That is a matter of opinion (since today's plastic rivals brass in detail and often runs better, my opinion would be no), but that is a totally different argument. What is PRC plastic anyway?
As a general rule, new plastic can run better..depends again on vintage and manufacturer. Peoples Republic of China plastic.....anyway. I owned a Fiat...once. Because of that, I will never, ever own another. "Better", "Improved", "More economical"...but it's still a Fiat (and yes, we're still on-track). And because I know first hand what evils can lurk in that PRC plastic..."regrind" springs readily to mind....and plastic gears that shrink (I know, in N there isn't much more they can shrink), PRC plastic has no value to me. And dear Admin...it was a valid question. "Some people..." and that is in no way, shape or form anything "personal". Dave
