Auto Reversing section goes dead

danny mccollim Jun 13, 2015

  1. danny mccollim

    danny mccollim TrainBoard Supporter

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    A few weeks ago I had a problem with my auto reverse section on my layout. Found out the digitrax AR1 was the problem. Replaced it with a DCC Specialties PSX AR1 and everything was working great until tonight. It was running great and then suddenly the train enters the AR section and just stops. If I bring the loco in from the other direction it will run the loop but if I stop in the middle of the AR section and change direction it won't go (either direction- dead). This happens when I come in from either direction. The AR section only works when it has to switch polarity and the red led is flashing. As soon as the train leaves the AR section and the light stops flashing on the psx circuit board, it stops putting out any voltage. I have jiggled all the wires and connections and inspected the circuit board for any problems - all looks good.
    Anyone else have a similar experience?
    When this happens the AR section is only putting out less than 3 volts ac while the main line is at 14 vac. I'm thinking something is not triggering in the psx to put out AC when not in reverse mode. I could buy another PSX and see if that's it but I hate to spend another $50+ just quite yet. (and this one is less than a month old)
    I'm using a Digitrax Zephyr for my DCC controller.
    I would appreciate any ideas you got!
    thanks guys

    danny
     
  2. danny mccollim

    danny mccollim TrainBoard Supporter

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    I also forgot to mention that I have jumped J7-3 and J7-4 on the PSX AR and no change. It's Friday night and I'm just gonna sit here and have a couple of shots of Patron and some cerveza while I ponder on this a bit more!! lol!

    Thanks guys

    danny
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2015
  3. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    It may be a bad board, but... is there any chance something is bridging both ends of the AR section? In this case, you are setting up a short that the board won't be able to fix by switching, so will instead act as a circuit breaker. Does this happen with all locos, or just one?

    If the board is less than a month old, give them a call. I had a bad board from them early on, and got excellent trouble shooting, and finally replacement service from them. After they got it back, even received a nice call back telling me I wasn't crazy -- the programming (in the ROM chip) on the board was all screwed up. They had no idea how that happened.
     
  4. PaulBeinert

    PaulBeinert TrainBoard Supporter

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    Danny,
    Do you have a diagram of the reversing loop and all turnouts within in it?
     
  5. danny mccollim

    danny mccollim TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks for the reply Rick.
    I have checked to see if anything was shorting out the section but I can't find anything. It does happen on all the locos. I think the board has bit it so I'm going to call DCC Specialties on Monday and see what they think. From what you say, it sounds like they are a pretty good group and will work with their customers!

    Thanks again

    danny
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2015
  6. danny mccollim

    danny mccollim TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks for the reply Paul
    Here are some diagrams of the AR section and the turnouts. The first is just the AR section and the second is the layout. The AR section is on the East side. The third is a breakdown simplified drawing of the layout without all the up-and-overs. Just the two mainlines and the AR section. Thanks again for your help Paul!

    danny
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2015
  7. RT_Coker

    RT_Coker TrainBoard Supporter

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    Danny,
    I do not see a reverse-loop; just two main-loops that are wired out-of-phase with each other when connected by a locomotive across the connecting-turnouts. Are you sure that you can run a train around this layout and then use the turnouts to make it go around the opposite way?
    Bob
     
  8. PaulBeinert

    PaulBeinert TrainBoard Supporter

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    Danny,
    Which lights are flashing on the PSX-AR when you enter the reversing loop from the top and and then which lights flash when entering from the bottom?
    Do the light change when you reverse the loco (I am assuming you are doing that from the throttle and that there are no DPDTs involved).

    Bob,
    The 1st and 3rd pictures show where the reversing loop happens.
     
  9. RT_Coker

    RT_Coker TrainBoard Supporter

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    Paul,
    I can take my paper-pretend-train and run it all around the layout in the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] picture and never get it to go in the opposite direction around the track. If the phase is reversed on one of the main-loops, and the correct phase is used on the “AR-1” section, there would be no need of the auto-reverse-unit in the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] picture.
    Bob
     
  10. danny mccollim

    danny mccollim TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks guys for your help. The AR section I've created is not a traditional loop but it is a proven way to use an AR circuit. Bob, I can change direction on both mainlines. Maybe the diagram isn't as specific as it should be but the point where the two mainlines merge on the left of the 3rd diagram is just one single track. These are joined by two Wye turnouts so it makes it easy to change directions on the mains.

    Here is a quick video on youtube of me tracing the flow from North bound to South bound on mainline 2. I apologize for the jerky cursor movement!!

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=iBAutOHz9XI[/video]


    Here are some diagrams of working examples that I modeled my section from.

    This AR section was working flawlessly for the past month until something happened and now it acts more like a circuit breaker when not in AR mode.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2015
  11. jhn_plsn

    jhn_plsn TrainBoard Supporter

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    If you are using the Zephyr wouldn't the setting be J1-J2(1.27amps)?

    Or adjust via CV's to get 2.54amps?

    The Zephyr is seeing the short and shutting down?
     
  12. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Have you tried resetting the PSXAR?
     
  13. RT_Coker

    RT_Coker TrainBoard Supporter

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    My wrong assumption about track elevations. I should know better.
    Bob
     
  14. danny mccollim

    danny mccollim TrainBoard Supporter

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    I think you guys are on to it! I'm going to try to do a reset of the PSX AR and lower the trip current.
    I'll keep you posted!

    Thanks guys

    danny
     
  15. PaulBeinert

    PaulBeinert TrainBoard Supporter

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    Danny,
    Did lowering the trip level help?
     
  16. nscalestation

    nscalestation TrainBoard Supporter

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    Danny,

    Looking at your drawings I see two possible reverse loops. I recently ran some experiments on a layout smaller that yours that had two reverse loops. I thought I could run both reverse loops with one PSX-AR as long as I had a non reversing section in between but in practice I would get stalls. I was operating two trains and the stalls occurred when both trains locos were crossing a gap at the same time. I made a post on my layout blog about this.

    http://www.palisadecanyonrr.blogspot.com/2015/05/experimenting-with-reverse-loops.html
     

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