Advice for Beginner Detailer

Virginian Railway Jan 19, 2015

  1. Virginian Railway

    Virginian Railway TrainBoard Member

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    Hi guys, I'd like to ask some advice from some of the Diesel and Freight car Detailers here on TB.

    First: How hard is it to make the first cut or drill your first hole? I just can't imagine drilling into a perfectly good diesel!
    2: If you plan on detailing an engine is it better to keep the factory paint job or just repaint it altogether?
    3: Do the added on parts break very easily? I've heard many people say detailed up engines and rolling stock are not the best on an operating layout.
    4: Do you ever have to make any mods to the engine or car's box to fit the extra details?
    5: Is there a certain engine or car that is best for someone's first project you would recommend? I have a SD45 for a project, but progress has stalled until Atlas restocks a part I need. I'm thinking about a Kato F7 or SD70M for my first project but I'd like to here your thoughts.

    Thanks for any help and feel free to add anything else!
     
  2. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Most of the quality detail parts sets for ladders and grabs come with small drill jigs on the parts sprues to allow one to properly space the grab and handrail holes. Taking time to align them correctly is the main thing. Also usually a drill bit size like a #79 or 80 is called for and you need a good pin vise that can hold such small drill bits. Those very small drill bits can break very easily if one applies too much pressure, don't ask me how I know, and they can easily end up on the floor almost invisible until your foot finds the sharp little devils, and again don't ask me how I know. You need some fine point tweezers to handle the small parts like the grabs which are applied with a fine drop of ACC, using some type of very fine point applicator like a dental pick to transfer the ACC. Any paint or chemical blackening is best done on the parts sprue while still attached for obvious reasons. The model should have its finish coat of paint before this is done. If any touch up is needed a very fine point brush can accomplish that.

    I recommend trying the F unit body first because of the easier surfaces to work with rather than a road switcher body.
    All that said and done a very detail model needs very careful handling because those parts are delicate and easily bent or detached. The home layout is the best environment for those highly detailed units especially if they are stored on the layout between operating sessions and not continually remove or handled. I have had some with the extra detailing, mostly F units with nose grabs, added air and MU hoses, windshield wipers, and handrails everywhere. A real P.I.T.A.to handle but they did look nice. I did forget to add that the units with cast on details have to have those details very carefully shaved off if going the full route. That will necessitate a repaint job once done because it is very difficult to exactly match the factory paint. Of course steam is easier because it is almost impossible to not be able to match black to black on touch ups.
     
  3. subwayaz

    subwayaz TrainBoard Member

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    John Moore, gave some great tips above for you, and may I add just one more thing that I did. Since I was so fearful to drill into an engine shell I just paid so much for I went onto Ebay I purchased the cheapest model I could get of the same Loco Class I planned to really work on for a test run. I learned a lot on that first shell I detailed but sure wouldn't want to run it on my layout
     
  4. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    I can add one more thing. An old B unit like F-3B or F-7B is probably a good practice platform. If it is an old dummy B unit the more the better. There you can get into the grabs and handrails, working diaphragms on the ends, winterization hatches if not already there, grill screens, back up lights on both ends, carving off steam generator details to make freight units, or adding them to make a passenger unit if not already there. In short there is a wealth of detail parts out there, it all depends on how far you want to take something.
     
  5. Virginian Railway

    Virginian Railway TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks, I have a dummy B-Mann F9 that I could work with.
     
  6. DrMb

    DrMb TrainBoard Member

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    #1 It's actually fairly easy when you look at the model and compare it to the prototype you are trying to represent. Simply put, you cross the event horizon once you decide to do it rather than when you start the drilling/cutting.

    #2 Repaint it. You'll never get the painted details to match the factory job. That's why it's annoying when you can't find undecorated locomotives/shells.

    #3 The tendency is for them to break off rather than to break since most detail parts are metal. Handrails/grab irons are the exception but not by much since they bend before they break.

    #4 If the padding is foam rather than plastic, not really.

    #5 I would say that base it on the prototype you want to depict rather than which models are available. That said, go with Atlas. Simply put, you can get parts easily if you screw up.
     
  7. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    One suggestion that I find to make things easier... I have this tool that I'm not sure what it's even called but it looks like a miniature screwdriver but instead of a bit on the end it is just filed to super fine sharp point. (think miniature "ice pick") I use that to put a "pilot hole" where I think the hole should be drilled. (or using a jig, either way) It makes an indention that lets me check my work before beginning to drill the hole, plus give the tiny bit a place to grab hold of so it doesn't wander (drift) when you begin drilling. Mine has a light blue handle on it and I have no idea where I got it...I think maybe at a show.

    Just beware, it is SHARP. You'll drop it or slip and stab yourself. It's just gonna happen. I consider myself very careful and it still happens. It will make you bleed many, many times so just prepare for it....lol. (you'll probably get stabbed by the drill bits, too...it's tons of fun!) Mine does have a plastic cover that goes over the tip, and you need to keep that on when you're not using it. So it's a love/hate relationship, but it sure makes drilling holes easier, for me. Just keep your tetanus shot up to date. ;-)
     
  8. Brian K

    Brian K TrainBoard Member

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    For anyone that says you can't match factory paint, I respectfully disagree. Yes, it takes a bit of practice but it's not impossible. Mixing and matching paint colors to get a correct shade just takes a base understanding of the color pallet. If I'm detailing, I almost never fully repaint a factory unit when I'm done. If it's a patch job, I usually want dissimiliar colors anyway.

    My son is currently learning to detail on Atlas GP40 shells I picked up for $10 during the last order I made with them. Cheapest way to learn so you don't feel bad if it does not come out right. Kato shells are to expensive to learn on in my opinion.

    Cheers,
    Brian
     
  9. Brian K

    Brian K TrainBoard Member

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    Thumb tacks (not the flat head kind) work well for that purpose too and I've never poked myself hard enough with one to make myself bleed... ;)

    Cheers,
    Brian
     
  10. jpwisc

    jpwisc TrainBoard Member

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    If you know someone who is a detailer, sit down and work with them. Ask what tools they use and why. I have friends who will come over for detailing sessions. We exchange ideas and talk techniques. I let friends try my tools out, so they know what they want to buy and why.

    Detailing is an evolution. Don't think you will be satisfied with the first one. I was okay with my first, but I've come a long way.
    My first:
    [​IMG]
    Something more recent:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    That's a good tip. (no pun intended) :teeth:

    This one has just a little bit finer point than the thumb tacks. Probably not enough difference to matter but anyway. And I was exaggerating a bit about the stabbing/bleeding but mostly just trying to establish that the little sucker can do almost as much damage as a rogue X-acto knife if not careful. (and yes, true of any sharp tool)
     
  12. Ryan Wilkerson

    Ryan Wilkerson TrainBoard Member

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    Great comparison Karl.
    I agree with the previous posters. I would definitely start on shells that are cheap and plentiful. The Kato SD70M is definitely something to be saved for later when you're confident. If you mess that one up, it will be tough to replace and will be costly.

    I also started with Atlas GP40-2s and even GP35s. Using an undecorated shell is the least expensive or sometimes checking the Atlas decorated shell clearance offerings will yield a good starter. I like to try new things on a unit that I care about because I don't want to spend many hours on something that won't run well.
    -Ryan
     
  13. Virginian Railway

    Virginian Railway TrainBoard Member

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    I'll have to try using thumb tacks. I did do some drilling on a cab I got off Shapeways. Yes I did get it just to learn firsthand what 3D printed stuff is like. I hope actual models are not as tough as FUD, but I think I did a pretty good job on what I did do. I'll have to check the Bay or Atlas.com for any shells since Atlas usually has a good amount of shells out.

    Also, for for FVM engines that have dimples for drilling, how easy are they to work with? I have some FVMs that are just begging for their details to be put on!
     
  14. gmaddox

    gmaddox TrainBoard Member

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    Virginian Railways, if you are interested in undecorated shells, Kato has their C44-9W shells for $5.00 each and PA/PB shells on sale for the same price?

    gene maddox
     
  15. DrMb

    DrMb TrainBoard Member

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    I would like to point out that when a person creates a beginner detailing thread, usually they will create a beginner airbrushing thread in the near future. ;)
     
  16. Eagle2

    Eagle2 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    On the thumb tack idea, I have a straight pin (sewing kit) that I've snipped the head off. I'll put this in the pine vise to push in a little dimple as a starter before drilling. It's done me well.
     

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