I started out with a Walthers Roundhouse and their original big turntable. Problem was always the amount of space the complex ate up and as I studied my chosen road to model more I found the engine house and turntable was in greater use than the roundhouse concept. So I got rid of the roundhouse and large turntable in favor of the smaller footprint engine house and the smaller Atlas covered turntable. That for me simplified the layout design as I could place the turntable almost anywhere in relation to the engine house and not worry about track lining up with the stalls. A simple one lead to the engine house and if needed a turnout or two the access the stalls depending on number. The rest of the leads give me the access to service track and storage tracks. And other than some short straight leads to the turntable I can curve those storage tracks to fit into smaller spaces.
This is a photo of the Walthers indexed turntable on my layout with Kato unitrack and the old Heljan roundhouse. I hope to allocate an equivalent area to the steam locomotive service facility on my next home layout.
Lou, please note I never said anything about arbitrary numbers or putting the roundhouse right next to the pit. I made a legitimate point about roundhouse geometry and prototype practices. Otto K.
The track separation AT THE ROUNDHOUSE is determined by the distance from the center of the bridge,but actual degrees of track separation are determined by the size of the TT..If you have a TT big enough for 360 tracks,you have 1 track for each degree.As a general statement,say you make the TT half the diameter,say it will only hold 180 tracks.Now,each track at the same distance is now 2 degrees apart.Separation is automatically wider on a smaller pit,because as you get closer to the center,you are unable to have as many tracks,so,your pit can only accomodate as many tracks as can cover the now smaller circle.fewer tracks in a 360 degree circle,wider track spacing at farther distances..If what you are saying is true,then you could put any roundhouse on any TT just by adjusting the distance..You cannot put a Heljan roundhouse on a 5" TT..
Okay Lou, I give up, you win. I didn't realize I was saying you could "put any roundhouse on any TT just by adjusting the distance". Duh. My mistake. I'm sorry I brought it up... Otto K.
"Quote:Respectfully, it is the distance from the center point of the pit to the front wall of the roundhouse which determines the minimum degrees of track separation (and hence the roundhouse geometry and relative size and proportions) not the length of the turntable...quote Excuse me,but if you wish to keep this going without actually putting any thought into it,go ahead,but this statement is WRONG...As I said,what you state determines the separation of the tracks at the roundhouse,but ultimately,it is the diameter of the turntable,determined by the length of the bridge,that determines the actual degrees of track separation..If you don't get it,I give up too..
You know,if you can't understand what I'm saying,draw a 5",7",and 9" circle,grab some track,try to put it around that circle,and see what happens to the track angles.....
I think that this is getting complicated. I think that there are two major turntables that you can purchase with indexing. They are Walthers (130 ft) and Kato, both have roundhouses set for 10 degree spacing. The Atlas manual turntable has turntable leads at 15 degree spacing. Walthers 3-stall roundhouse and turntable takes 24 inches by 10 3/8 inches of space. Kato will take a couple of inches less.
If you want to use the Heljan roundhouse, it is set for a 7.5 degree spacing. This means that the stalls will need to be further away from turntable, see Wolf's picture which means using more space (length) than the Walthers or Kato roundhouses. The Kato turntable has a 6.3 inch diameter and 36 tracks (10 degrees), are about the max that you can fit around the smaller turntable.
I'm sorry, I made a comment, respectfully, that I believe to be legitimate and you're not required to agree with me. Reasonable people sometimes disagree because we look at things from different points of view. That doesn't make us bad, or uninformed, or stupid. But you don't need to tell me I wish to "keep this going without actually putting any thought into it ". I've put plenty of thought into roundhouse design over the years and I'm in the process of building a 34-stall house. But you keep restating the painfully obvious without actually taking the time to ponder what I wrote from a broader perspective. As I said, I'm sorry I made the comment...
I reexamined the three stall version of my Heljan roundhouse and was struck by the idea that I may be able to disassemble it and then use the walls to rebuild it around the Kato roundhouse. This means the front wall and floor of the Heljan would not be used. Until I have one of the Kato units in hand, I have no idea if this could work.
How is the Walthers turntable for noise? I've used Arnold and Fleischmann turntables in the past and both were loud enough to wake the dead. Pretty annoying. Cheers, -Mark
My Walthers 130' turntable Walthers Part # 933-2613 runs really quiet. A cracked gear has me annoyed however :-( ** One thing that should be done...use a drop of CA on each rail on the table. They do move !!! The motor on this turntable has a lot of torque. If a table rail has moved out...it will snag a service track and stop. The torque will get to the weakest link...and thats the gears...C R A C K !!! Been there...done that. :-(
Maletrain, Hopefully, we have answered all your questions. One of your original questions was how much space for a 6-stall arrangement. The Walters 130 ft turntable with 11 inch long roundhouse and 3-stalls, will take up 24 inches by 10 3/8 inches (width of turntable). A 6 -stall set-up, will take approximately 24 inches by 18 inches. The Kato roundhouse is also at 10 degrees but with smaller turntable and shorter roundhouse will be 2 or 3 inches less in both dimensions. On your indexing question, this is tough to make work well in N-scale but there are many articles in past MR. With the advent of two good Indexing turntables in Walthers and Kato, it is tough to find an indexing kit. There is a very nice article on constructing the Walters roundhouse by Keith Lyons in N-Scale Railroading magazine. This article was also reprinted in Walthers N&Z catalog for 2011.
Check this out: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine...lem&highlight=cracked+gear+walthers+turntable Al
Well, I am a little confused. SP-wolf posted that he is using a Walthers130’ TT with 2 Heljan/Walthers RHs. AndRogergperkins posted that he is using the Walthers indexed TT with the oldHeljan RH. But, Tonkphilip posted thatthe Walthers (and Kato) indexing TTs have 10° track spacing and the Heljan RHis set for 7.5° spacing. So, it seemsthat the angles available for the Walthers tracks would not match the angles of the tracks going into the Heljan RH. Seems odd, since Walthers marketed the Heljanmodel as its “Union City” RH and paired it with the 120’ TT it got fromHeljan. So, is there a compatibilityissue between track angles for between the old Heljan Rh and the new Walters130’ TT? And, if so, how did SP-Wolf getaround that? As for size of RH plus TT, it seems to me that the big spaceissue is the distance from pit center to back of RH. For relatively short engines, the minimum RH radialdimension is basically the length of the largest engine, with some clearance,and the front of the RH has to be far enough from the pit to have the tracksseparated far enough to provide for doors and pillars between tracks. So, for a given angle between tracks, the lengthof the engine only sets the MINIMUM radius of the RR and the necessary depth of theRH. The radius to the front of the RH isbasically fixed by the angle of the tracks coming off the TT. If one is scratch building the indexingsystem, then one can play with the track angles, but that seems like a mootpoint for most of us. We need to live withthe available options. Hence, myquestion about COMPATIBILITY.
Yes, it works just fine. See this thread http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine...30ft-turntable-work-with-Union-City-Roudhouse The table is just a bit further back from the front of the roundhouse than the modern roundhouse
Maletrain, I was primarily pointing out the fixed angles on the roundhouse. However, the Kato turntable is fixed at a minimum 10 degrees for its small turntable. The Walters turntable was originally sold for use with the 10 degree Cornerstone roundhouse. However, the Walthers turntable is larger and adjustable, it can be adjusted down to 7.5 degrees for the Heljan 7.5 degree roundhouse. As Rick notes, the smaller angle means that you take more space or length with the smaller angle. But you get the benefit of parking your engines outside the roundhouse with the longer lead tracks at 7.5 degrees. With 10 degrees and the Walthers trurntable and roundhouse, there are only 2 inches between the front of the roundhouse and the edge of the turntable. With Kato's smaller turntable and roundhouse at 10 degrees, you also have lead tracks long enough to park an engine outside the roundhouse.
