CFL lights and headaches..

Zug Aug 11, 2014

  1. Zug

    Zug TrainBoard Member

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    I did a search and didn't see anything about this so here it goes..

    I just started getting back to my trains again, and spent a fair bit of time the last couple days cleaning the layout and locos as I was talking about in another post about oiling..
    Today I have a headache that I can't seem to shake even with lots of Tylenol.. And it came to me, it could be the compact florescent lights (CFL) used on the layout and my magnifying desk lamp. All are GE daylight (6500K) 15 watts.
    And I'm think working so close to them doing the cleaning and oiling yesterday got to me.

    I'm wondering if anybody else has experienced anything like this?

    I use these lights mainly for the daylight color temperature of them and they don't put out as much heat. Power is included in my rent so I'm not too worried about that.
    The layout lights are every two feet about 20 inches above the layout. The magnifier lamp is just a 2x cheap one I got at the surplus store a while back.
    I'm thinking about at least switching the desk lamp to Sylvania daylight incandescent bulb since I think that triggered the nasty headaches more then the lights over the layout. Although I'm also thing of switching the layout to either 40 watt (maybe even lower as I thing the current lighting is a bit too bright) incandescent or LED strip lighting.. but that's another topic I guess...
     
  2. vitaccop

    vitaccop TrainBoard Supporter

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    I've had daylight CFL bulbs in my entire house for a couple of years now with no issues.
     
  3. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    Were you using alcohol to help clean the track? You know, like Jack Daniels or Jim Beam? That could contribute to the headache.
    :droll:

    All kidding aside (and sorry for your headache) I would probably not make wholesale changes like that unless the scenario repeats itself. (i.e. if you spend lots of time near that lighting again and then have another similar type of reaction)
     
  4. robert3985

    robert3985 TrainBoard Member

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    I run 27W (100W Incandescent equivalent) 5,000K CFL's in my layout lighting and in all fixtures in my layout room. I don't have any issues. I would venture a guess that your 15W CFL's are too dim, or the extra blue light is bothering you. "Daylight" is determined to be at noon as it is warmer in the afternoon and morning.

    Your 6,500K lights are waaaay blue and equivalent of a highly overcast day.

    In the film industry, the standard for "daylight" is 5,500K, but "daylight" is usually accepted to be between 5,000K and 5,600K.

    If light is too dim, your pupils open up and the depth-of-field gets very shallow, which means your eyes have to work more to stay in focus, which could lead to headaches. Try a brighter light, which makes your eyes' f-stop get larger (smaller hole) so your depth of field increases.

    Here's a photo of my 5,000K CFL's lighting my layout at the Evanston Roundhouse Festival two years ago...with natural daylight coming in through the restored machine shop's windows between the blinds in the early afternoon. As you can see, the color of both light sources is very close:
    [​IMG]

    Cheerio!
    Bob Gilmore
     
  5. LOU D

    LOU D TrainBoard Member

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    I've had daylight CFL's in my house,and daylight fluorescents in my house for years,and I use them in all my work/desk lights.I've never had a problem..I'd be more likely to blame it on plain old eye strain from working through the magnifier for a long time.
     
  6. Zug

    Zug TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for the replies.
    I too started using CFL's a long time ago, late 90's when the were bulky long "prongs" as my mother use to call them.

    I tried an experiment a few minutes ago, I borrowed a incandescent Sylvania daylight 60 watt that was in my reading light over my bed and put it in place of one of the CFLs on the layout. It was a very noticeable difference in color. And I admit the 6500K CFLs are a tad on the blue side, but there's bare plywood right over them so that reflects a bit warmer. But either way the layout is plenty bright, maybe too bright.

    Next I moved the incandescent Sylvania daylight to the magnifier lamp, didn't do any work, but I think I'll leave it there now as up close it's less strain on my eyes then with the CFL, so I think it was a combination of being so close to the CFL and the magnifier and not being use to working for an hour or so that way. I should mention I have cataracts in my left eye.. So it has trouble focusing and seeing things a bit warmer then my right eye. So I think that was the cause, I'll clean and oil a couple more locos tomorrow and see how it goes.

    The layout I'm going to leave it as it is for now. But tend to think I'll get some 40 watt incandescent daylight bulbs later on and put a dimmer on them from when I want lower light to show off building lighting. The bad part is I've read the incandescent lights are supposed to be banned in Canada at the end of this year.. So I guess I'll have to stock up.


    btw, the headache is still there, but a lot better now:)
     
  7. P50P

    P50P TrainBoard Member

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    With conventional fluorescent lamps, I'd get headaches and nauseated if they were in front of me and close, but overhead in the garage or office didn't seem to bother me.

    Currently I have all CFL's. The early ones bothered me; the newest do not.

    I vote for eyestrain, with contributing factors - lighting "in your face" (try for over-the-shoulder) and long periods of close / fixed focus.

    Take breaks at least every 30 minutes and focus on something 3, 6, 12 or more feet away, preferably switching to all those distances, to loosen those eye muscles.
     
  8. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have had my entire house including reading and work lamps converted back about three years ago as the incandescent lights gave up the ghost with nary a problem except for a slight wait while the florescent came up to full brightness. Tried a few of the LED bulbs and found them to be too directional not to mention expensive and short lived. As I have aged my lighting requirements have changed and I have adapted my puter to a less bright background finding that was an issue in causing some eyestrain. My workbench now has an adjustable light that allows me to position for optimum lighting on what I need or the ability to lower the unit for more concentrated light. I also have some small portable and adjustable lights that I can add to the workbench if the need arises to have additional lighting. I found the computer to be the source for most of my eyestrain issues and with the adjustments to brightness and color plus just taking frequent breaks from both the workbench and computer to have resolved my headache issues.
     
  9. MioneRR

    MioneRR TrainBoard Member

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    Fluorescent lights have a bit of a flicker that few people notice. It has to do with the frequency of ac, 60 hertz. We have a woman in our office who spends most of the day working with CAD. Her cubicle is walled off from the rest so that the light from fluorescent fixtures don't bother her. She gets bad headaches from fluorescents. For another worker, her walled off cubicle has a skylight so she doesn't get headaches. I've heard that the problem is much more widespread outside North America where they use 50 hertz. I vaguely remember this being addressed in a double E class forty odd years ago. Maybe some of our European members know more.
     
  10. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    My wife is sensitive to sunlight and she can't stand 6500k. I've used them. They're pretty blue. (though put them over a salt water fish tank and they're too yellow). I'd recommend not using them exclusively. Either switch down to the 5k lights or add in some warmer colors.
     
  11. ArtinCA

    ArtinCA TrainBoard Member

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    I've been using natural light (5600k) CFL's for years and haven't had headaches either. But slumped over working and not getting my eyes checked have been problems. Luckly, I've learned not to slouch and got my eyes checked and good glasses for working on models. That's helped alot!
     
  12. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    I did not include it in my previous post but unfortunately as one nears the 50 mark it isn't a bad idea to get the eyes checked by a good doctor that can dilate those eyes and peer into them to see if there are any abnormal changes occurring.
     
  13. Zug

    Zug TrainBoard Member

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    Because I have cataracts I do get the checked every year now, but they are not to the point to get surgery.. But the have changed a lot of the past few years, and I have a collection of glasses to switch between as need. Right now, what was my reading glasses 2 years ago are my driving glasses..
     
  14. Zug

    Zug TrainBoard Member

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    I did some work under the magnifier lamp to with the incandescent daylight in it, Soldering a battery wiring harness and connector for running my ham radios off a car battery .. and no headache tonight, so the no more CFL there, I'll just have to be mindful of the hot bulb in there now.
     
  15. greatdrivermiles

    greatdrivermiles TrainBoard Member

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    It could be something in your Lamp. I had some CFLs in a lamp that put out a barely noticeable flicker and it was causing me headaches and a bit of nausea. It wasn't till I changed it over to an LED that I was able to notice the flickering. Turned out the the lamp was set on the lower voltage setting (for dual illumination bulbs). Try changing to an LED bulb you'll know right away if its the lamp itself.
     
  16. daniel_leavitt2000

    daniel_leavitt2000 TrainBoard Member

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    As stated, CFL have a natural frequency of 60 hertz due to the reversing polarity in our AC electrical grid. Most people don't notice it, but a few notice changes in light at that frequency if your eyes have a faster than normal refresh rate. I have this problem as well - even monitors set to 65 hertz would give me a headache. I have to use 75 hertz or better in my computer and the 120 hertz setting on my tv not to get eye strain.





    At work, I keep the CFLs off as much as possible, and sometimes use a desk lamp.





    At home, I have replaced all my CFLs with LED lights which come in similar temperatures. These have been a life saver for my eyes. While LEDs shut off and on more quickly than CFLs, theatrically increasing the flicker, in practice they all use a built in bridge rectifier and capacitor which alleviate the flickering. My basement layout is being planned from the start to use all LED lighting.
     
  17. NtheBasement

    NtheBasement TrainBoard Member

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    I've been using GE 55K for years but they are four-footers, not CFL. Except for when the bulb goes bad I've never noticed a flicker. Do all fluorescents flicker or just the compacts?
     
  18. retsignalmtr

    retsignalmtr TrainBoard Member

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    I have been replacing all my CFL's with LED bulbs and I think the LED's give out a better light. I would agree on getting your eyes checked. I used to get headaches doing work on my layout and now use my reading glasses whenever I am working or running on it.
     

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