Just want to have a casual conversation about DCC, or not, for my next layout. My current one will always be DC. That's fine, it's a simple roundy-round and doesn't have a lot to do. But my next layout will be 3.5 or 4 x 8 in N scale and I'd like at least one mainline and a small switching yard, and I like the idea of running town lights, etc... I'm pretty sure I'd like DCC, I just want to hear from the experienced their private joys, or frustrations, with DCC. I am deathly afraid of electronics, but I keep reading on the threads here that DCC is ultimately easier. Then the claimant of ease shows a photo of their under-board and :wideeyes: . It always looks impressive, but also technical and complex. Anyhow, I bet I can get it done, just need to take my time.
I have no frustrations unless its Digitrax! I have a nce power cab and love it!!!!!! I'll never go back to dc. Try both because their are those that like one or the other its like chevy people and ford people.
Hi Scott, Im running on my home layout the Bachmann Dynamis System, the club I'm joining is running Digitrax. I had only used DC up until I started my current layout. I'll say this, you will love it. There is a bit of a learning curve but nothing really bad ( hey we all started using home computes, right?). If you can find a club in your area that is using DCC, go check it out. You will be glad you did. best of luck, dale
Thanks for the words guys. I've been scouring old threads and have come across talk of Aristo-Craft radio throttle? Is this some sort of DC alternative? If I'm only going to run a few things is there a way to "meet in the middle" between a plain old DC transformer and full-on DCC?
Mine is 8x4/5 and if I was going to start again I wouldn't go DCC... But the issue I have is that my club runs only DCC these days, so for to run there, or at exhibitions, DCC or tell your story walking.
DCC Aristo Craft uses a wireless system to communicate with the base station. You should really Google it and do some research. Doing research allows you to get an Internet link and is much better than a few sentences or even a few paragraphs, plus you get a few pictures for a clearer view of the issue. Two or three DCC systems allow running a DC loco but the loco motor will buzz because of the AC component in the DCC signal. Even when the loco is stopped, the motor will buzz and be destroyed after a while. I have done this. Most DCC systems will NOT run a DC loco. You can run a layout with DC power pack OR DCC system using a DPDT switch. Most DCC equipped locos can run on DC but with some restrictions. You need a DCC system to modify CV's. Take your time or you might buy the wrong item. I have seen others who have. Ask before buying a particular item. Good links to keep. http://www.tonystrains.com/ Good DCC info but not much in N scale for sound. http://www.mrdccu.com/ A very good DCC expert in many forums, mostly Yahoo Groups. https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/dcc-with-dc http://www.mrdccu.com/ Rich
Scott, DCC does not have to be complex for the size layout you are describing. The best advice I can give you is to stay with what is commonly used and do NOT add complexity unless it gives you something you really want or solves some problem on your layout. Reverse-loops are a lot of fun but can be confusing, make sure you get some good advice before you buy a DCC-Reversing-Unit. Be distrustful of language in the DCC manuals like “can be used with”! I am apparently one of the few who believe that direct iDevice-Bluetooth control of locomotives will be coming in next few years. Bob
I took the plunge five years ago and went Digitrax Super Chief Radio with a bunch of accessories and a grand's worth of decoders. I had the opportunity to run NCE, Lenz and Rail Lynx systems on friends' layouts as well as Digitrax, and it was a no-brainer for me...Digitrax was the way to go since I had a complex layout, a lot of motive power and I wanted to be able to run my DC engines at the same time as my DCC ones on the same tracks. NCE doesn't have that option, Lenz does. Digitrax's Loconet also was a big factor for going with Digitrax for me since I will eventually have train detection, signaling and automation so I can let the computer run some mainline trains, and I can run the locals. Sounds like a lot of fun to me, and I wouldn't have to have a crew over. Loconet allows you to do this and implement other advanced DCC options very easily. However, Digitrax manuals and instructions are very poorly written and difficult to understand, but...there are mountains of resources online. It took my son and I about a week of evenings to get fully acquainted with the Digitrax System, and now that we're acclimated, it's all second nature to us. The old club layout I was a member of used an Aristocraft Radio DC system, and all that's different about it and straight old DC is that the throttles are tetherless. It's a great DC system, but it in no way is anywhere near DCC and should NEVER be considered an alternative. A good alternative to DCC is Rail Lynx, but...it is much less versatile and although wireless, uses an infra red link which is very forgiving but is still directional-line-of-site, and is nothing like DCC radio. My partner in crime, Gregg Cudworth, uses Rail Lynx on our portable sectional/modular show layout and I run DCC. Since the Rail Lynx system does not send or receive signals through the rails, his engines are totally separate from DCC generated commands and we run great on the same tracks with his Rail Lynx decoders sucking power off the rails. The other thing that I really really like about DCC is SOUND!! In fact, DCC sound is what got me excited enough to decide to convert everything over to DCC. Since my layout is portable and sectional, my "power board" also needs to be portable. Here's a photo of my Digitrax Super Chief Power Board: Although the wiring for this looks complex, it's not. I just followed the Digitrax instructions and got it right the very first time. Here's a photo of the underside of one of my layout's sections, that I've re-wired to DCC, using best-practice methods and materials: Although this looks complicated, it's not. The wiring is basically this: There are two separate power districts, the red line and the yellow line, each one having its own separate power bus, which consists of a single two wire zip cable in 12AWG black and red. You can see them on the underside of the front L-girder. The rails require feeders and I attached a separate 22AWG solid core feeder to every single piece of rail...so, there are a LOT of feeders, but the concept is simple...(1) the rail nearest the edge of the layout has a red feeder attached to it, (2) the other rail on a piece of track has a black feeder attached to it. (3) The red feeders get attached to the red wire on the main power bus, and (4) the black feeders get attached to the black wire on the main power bus. On a separate DC power bus, there are wires connecting my Circuitron Tortoise switch motors to DPDT center-off toggle switches on my layout fascia...but these aren't DCC and are also not controlled by DCC. The wiring underneath my layout replaces a DC rat's nest of toggle switches and feeders that were needed to do simple things like go from one mainline to the other and switch throttle power on sidings, or turn a siding on or off.. All of that complexity is GONE using DCC. What makes thing "look" complicated is all the feeders and connections you will need if you do the "best-practice" wiring of a feeder for every piece of rail, but it's just the same thing over and over...black feeder to black power bus wire, and red feeder to red power bus wire...which gets repeated for each separate power district, with appropriate gaps to isolate each power district. Each power district then gets plugged into a "power management" board so that if there's a short on one power district, it doesn't shut the whole railroad down...just that power district. I used a Digitrax PM42 Quad Power Board for this, but there are other solid state boards that do the same thing. I have another power district that is my Park City Branch and I'll use the fourth power district as a reverser for my turntable. I just followed directions that came with the PM42, and it works like a charm. So...The wire you should have for you layout, since it's not too big, would be 14AWG, high purity, low oxygen, multi strand speaker wire for the main power buses. I prefer red/black zip speaker wire, and I found mine online at eBay and bought 300' of it since my layout continually grows. I'd think seriously about secondary buses that are 16AWG less than three feet long, which connect directly to your 22AWG solid copper track feeders, which I limit to 6" long. I connect all of my DCC wires using crimp connections, particularly Anderson Power Poles in between modules, and genuine 3M IDC (Insulation Displacement Connector) connectors for everything else. I use soldered connections for my DC power, and all of the problems I've had with my wiring (not much) has been in the DC soldered connectors. I experience zero problems with the 3M IDC's. I went online to the 3M site and found a chart which told me exactly which IDC's to get...their color indicates what wire sizes they're designed for...and then I went to eBay and bought them in 100 piece bulk packs for about 1/10th the cost of Micro Mark, my local electronics supply house, or Lowe's/The Home Depot. Here's a good rule of thumb. NEVER trust a rail joiner to carry power to a section of rail...even if it's soldered. Put a feeder on every piece of rail on your layout. Doing this may seem like a huge hassle, but, it makes for trouble free running with no dead spots. Lastly, here's a photo of my son running two trains at the Evanston Roundhouse Festival two years ago, using a dual cab Digitrax Super Radio Throttle and having a helluva great time! Cheerio!! Bob Gilmore
Hi scottmitchell74, and the rest. I'm an absolute newbie at DCC. I went Digitrax because most of the "runners" around here were using it and although I'm a lone wolf I "need more input". If the local flavah was NCE I'd probably have been in their camp. Either way I'm comfortable with the exchange I've had with the folks here. It's day and night. Yes it requires a financial commitment, yes there's a learning curve which can be humbling, I'm not looking back. Remember the TRS80 based computer control articles? Bruce Chubb,(I hope I spelled that right) was pointing the way, I didn't have the funds or the commitment to jump then, OOPS. I'm only into this about 1 week and I see possibilities(sp) that would have been difficult, simplified. My advice is to get yourself to a RR that is running DCC and see what the fuss is all about. This from a lone wolf. Tech help is available, both from the manufacture'ers(sp) and esp. here. Chances are these folks have "been there, done that". What else can I say, GO, Let's learn together, Army NCO idea, Learn one , Do one , Teach one. Thanks to the Folks here on TB for putting out my Helmet Fires. Bobby
The Digitrax Zephyr is built for guys like you with smaller layouts, all you really need but you may want to add a throttle or two at some point. I would ignore those who snipe Digitrax; Digi has gone through a number of configurations and the early ones were more demanding in time in to get adjusted, the more recent Digi stuff like the Zephyr are much easier to use. Often times I read criticisms of Digi based on the early system, but the writer of the post acts as though this is still true today. Don't forget the free software available with Decoder Pro to help you; you will need a computer inter-phase with the computer and track, but this can be added latter. The nice thing about Digitrax is it can expand as you go so if you win the lottery, you can have that gymnasium size layout and still incorporate what you purchased earlier.
DCC can be as easy... ...as running 2 wires out of the 'command center' and to one track feeder. Or as difficult as you wanna make it. Depends on ones electronic knowledge. It sounds like what you have planned falls in the 'simple' category. Like you...I have seen some DCC wiring that gives me a headache looking at it !! In your scenerio...even running one bus line off the command center with multiple track feeders would be simple to do. Heck...If I can do it...anyone can...LOL :teeth:
When I was building my small N-scale layout, I knew I wanted DCC, but I started with a cheap ($10) DC power pack. I built the benchwork, laid roadbed and track, then tested the layout by running it as a DC layout. My one locomotive at the time was a Bachmann 44-tonner which runs on either DC or DCC. When I was sure the trackwork was working well, THEN I bought my DCC system -- the NCE Power Cab. I disconnected the DC Power Pack, connected the Power Cab in its place, and I was instantly running DCC. I have since acquired a few more locos, mostly used ones to which I've installed decoders. The transition from DC to DCC was rather seamless. It would be more daunting if I'd had dozens of DC locos to convert. As it is, I still use that $10 DC power pack to test new locos before installing decoders in them. Although I chose NCE, I agree with the idea of purchasing whatever brand is most prevalent in your area, especially if you are a social person who might join a club. - Jeff
Digitrax is one of or the only one to allow running DC locos on address 0. Just be careful and do not leave the loco sit idle on DCC powered track. You do not need an extensive knowledge of electronics to get started. Having soldering skills would be good when installing your own decoders. The Zephyr system is good for a start and it is expandable for more power and wireless throttles. When I started building my present layout I wired it with the plan of switching to DCC. So when I did switch (Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio system), I only had to connect the two wires to the track and I was ready to go. If you purchase a system that has a five amp or more power output I would get some auxiliary circuit protection like the PSX series of adjustable circuit breakers to limit the current flow to what you actually need to run your trains.
The wiring is the most important part, whether it is DC or DCC. The key is to be slow and methodical and it will all come together nicely. That said, also choose the better materials and you will be a lot happier. Go with better grades of copper wire, and do not be fooled by the wives-tales about using 12 gauge bus wire. The quality of the wire will have the most effect on the operation of your layout. If you decide to use accessories, try to use brands that are more universal, that way, if you ever change systems, you don't have to change your wiring or accessories. Also, stay away from mechanical relay devices, they are more troublesome than helpful. As always, evaluate your needs independent of outside influences and make the best decision for you! There will always be help here if you need it.
There is nothing to fear, but fear itself! And the damn decoder that won't program!! seriously, it can look daunting, but if you can handle blocking out a layout, you can hook up DCC
