Hi all, I've decided to go DCC. Pretty much decided to go with a Digitrax Zephyr. I'd appreciate input on a couple of things. Will I need/should I get, more than just the Zephyr? A PR3, power booster, how would you do it if you were starting now, with the advantage of hindsight? I'm going to have the first loco decoders installed to flatten the learning curve, but don't want to have half a paddle. Also maybe your 2 cents worth on sound. Thnx, Bobby
The booster is dependent on how large the layout is. So that is a pass for now. The PR3 or the RR-Circuits LocoBuffer are handy to have so you can use your computer to program the decoders. Takes a lot of the frustration out! About the only thing you need to get started would be a circuit breaker between your Zephyr and the layout. This is used as an insurance policy against a- shorts on the layout and b- protects the output stage of your controller. If DCC leaks back into the controller, it will smoke the output section (learned that the hard way) About the best units are the DCC Specialties PSX devices. They are solid state devices as opposed to others that use mechanical relays. You should never use devices using mechanical relays. If you want to run a lot of sound, your Zephyr may not be up to the task. It really all depends on how much your are going to let DCC handle. Look at the lest couple of pages above in the sticky posts section on DCC Bus wiring. There is a guide there to give you an example on calculating the power you are going to need. You may want to look at going straight to the Super Chief. It will give you more power to start with.
Thanks for the heads up, that might have been bad. Does the same circuit board function as a breaker and a reversing unit? This will be a modest layout, a double headed train and a branchline switching operation. I see there's a dealer here in OKC, just don't know enough to ask the right questions.
Bobby, First, greetings from Tulsa! I feel it's my duty to warn you, if you buy sound you will forever be ruined!!! I bought my first sound locomotive about 60 days ago. I now have 3! Sound equipped locos are amazing, I have 2 of the Atlas Dash 8 40BW's with sound, I love them! good luck! Dale
The DCC Specialties PSX units are circuit breakers. They have a PSX-AR for auto-reversing. They are different devices based on function. They are also awesome devices. I have dozens of them in use.
Be warned, this is an epistle: A lot of what you "want" or "should have" is dependent on your layout design. Sure, you can use your Zephyr Xtra (it IS the Xtra, right???) just fine as a throttle, but, you can also add either tethered or wireless throttles very easily, and let your Zephyr be your command station/booster. I would stay away from the Digitrax Super Empire Builder as it lacks certain key features which both the Zephyr and the Super Chief have, such as being able to read back CV's directly from your decoder, which is invaluable when messing around with getting your engine running and sounding "just right", or trouble shooting problems. The difference between the Super Chief and the Zephyr as far as amps is concerned is only 2 amps. If you've got a modest layout and have three or four engines or consists on the layout at the same time, then 3 amps, even with sound, should be just fine. Remember that not all engines in consists need to have their sound turned on. For example, when I run my COLA Streamliner with an A-B-A consist on the front end, I only turn the sound on two engines, and truthfully, it would probably sound okay with sound coming out of only one. It'd be a good idea to divide your layout up into a couple of power districts or more. With mine, since I'm running a double-track mainline and a branchline, I've divided it up into three power districts using the Digitrx PM42, with a circuit left over for my turntable when I get around to putting that in. Although I've heard a lot of bad things about the PM42, it works fine for me, but as has been previously stated there are other options. The nice thing about the newest iteration of Digitrax throttles is that they have a "Blast" programming function, which gives extra power to sound decoders, which was a problem as little as four years ago. Sound decoders need more voltage during programming, and any Digitrax starter system obviates the need for a programming track power booster such as the Soundtraxx PTB-100. The most obvious "upgrade" would be to go with tethered or wireless throttles, but that also depends on the way your layout is arranged. If you're going to do switching on the other side of the layout, or have your layout divided up into two scenic "zones" by using a divider running down the middle of it, or if you've got a peninsula over there with an industry or just running trains where you can't see them from where the Zephyr is located, you'll probably want at least one additional throttle. How many people are going to operating your layout? If you've got room for a couple of trains out on the mainline, and a busy yard...and maybe a set-up track and yard somewhere, you've got four people right off the bat running trains. You'll need three more throttles. If you decide to go with tethered throttles, then you need the least expensive non-wireless tethered throttles, which would be the Digitrax UT4 Utility Throttle (which still has infrared capability), which you'd plug into strategically placed Digitrax UP5 Basic Loconet Panels around the layout at spots where you'll be doing some ops, for traditional walk-around operation. Of course, you'll have to "plug in" to do anything with these throttles, and they're not capable of stationary decoder operations, such as turnout control, and they're limited to 13 "F" functions for decoder operation and lighting effects. They are "basic" Digitrax throttles. If you decide to go wireless, I'd skip the infra red option and go straight to Duplex Wireless, which is much (MUCH) more versatile. You'll minimally need to go with the UT4D Radio Equipped Utility Throttle and the UR92 Duplex Radio Transceiver Panel. With these throttles, you can run, select, and dispatch without plugging in but they still have the same limitations as the cheaper basic non-radio version, other than radio operations. The next, big step up in the wireless game is to get a UT402D "Super Throttle" which allows you to read and write CV's, control non-mobile decoders (switches, etc.), allows 30 "F" functions as opposed to 13 on the UT4's...in other words, you can do everything and more on this throttle than you can do on your Zephyr...including running two trains simultaneously. It is a major step up and sort of obsoletes your Zephyr and turns it into a booster. You'd probably be wise to go with several strategically placed basic UP5 Loconet Panels in case the battery suddenly dies in your wireless throttle and you've got a runaway train or you want to save the battery by plugging in, such as when doing layout maintenance. So, what's the cost? I'll list full MSRP in my listing, but you can get everything for at least a 10 percent discount (maybe more) from a number of sources. For basic walk-around train control using plug-in throttles you'll need these two items: (1) UP5 Basic Loconet Panel (need several around the layout to "plug in" your tethered UT4 Utility Throttles) MSRP = $16.95 (2) UT4 Plug-in Utility Throttle (very basic) MSRP = $79.95 For basic Duplex Radio operation you'll need these two items: (1) UT4D Duplex Radio Equipped Utility Throttle (minimum 1 required for limited Duplex Radio Operation) MSRP = $135.00 (2) UR92 Duplex Radio Transceiver (necessary for Duplex Radio Operation...only 1 is needed...not line-of-sight) = $160.00 (3) OPTIONAL: UP5 Basic Loconet Panel (placed around your layout fascia for tethered control of your train) MSRP = $16.95 For full Duplex Radio operation on your layout you'll need these two items: (1) DT402D Duplex Radio Super Throttle (At least 1 for full Duplex Radio operation. You can run two trains with this) MSRP = $250.00 (2) UR92 Duplex Radio Transceiver (necessary for Duplex Radio Operation. One is required, has a 300' receiving radius) = $160.00 (3) OPTIONAL: UP5 Basic Loconet Panels (placed around your layout fascia for tethered control of your train) MSRP = $16.95 ea. (4) OPTIONAL: UT4D Duplex Radio Equipped Utility Throttle for operators who will not be needing full Duplex control MSRP = $135.00 When I went DCC five years ago, it was a big deal for me and required fully re-wiring my rat's next DC layout. I also didn't really know anything about DCC, other than the bits I'd picked up operating on friends DCC layouts, which led me to Digitrax. Duplex Radio was not available when I bought my system, but I bought the top-of-the-line Super Chief Simplex Radio System, and skipped the Zephyr. The Super Chief Duplex Radio includes a Duplex Radio Super Throttle, a UR92 Duplex Radio Transceiver Panel, a DCS100 Command Station/Booster and a couple of other small items. The MSRP price for this is $665.00. If you decide to buy the Zephyr Xtra, a DT402D Super throttle, and a UR92 Tranceiver Panel, the combined MSRP price will be $225.00 for the Zephyr, $160.00 for the Radio Transceiver, $250 for the Super Throttle, equalling $635.00...30 bucks less than the "kit". You'll have to get a power supply also with the starter kit (not the Zephyr), and the cheapest one at Digitrax is the PS514 70W Power Supply for MSRP - $59.00...which makes buying the Super Chief "kit" 89 bucks more expensive. Gotta remember that you're getting more amperage, and some extra features with the Super Chief which you may or may not need. I also bought two UT4 Radio Utility Throttles for guests and operators at shows and a Soundtraxx PTB-100 for programming my sound-equipped engines, which you won't need. Here's a photo of my "Power Board" under my portable layout, so it needs to be portable and easy to break down and set up: Here's a photo of my "Radio Tower" which unobtrusively looms over the layout above the skyboard and makes for seriously excellent radio operations both at home and at shows: Here's my son running trains at the Evanston Roundhouse Festival two years ago using the Super Throttle to run two trains simultaneously. My Programming Track is visible with his two non-DCC Kato GS-4's parked on the programming track. The two LED's on the fascia under the Loconet Panel are "off"...which indicates the track is dead, so the motors don't cook: Since I didn't know much about DCC when I started out, I made a test-bed out of a single 6' double-tracked bridge module that I had leaning against the wall in my garage. This saved me a lot of time and money as I experimented with wiring, feeder placement, connections, gapping and programming track electronics and safety. I made my mistakes on that rather than on my whole layout, and it was a really good idea and saved me much frustration. I would highly recommend doing this on a slab of plywood after you get your starter system. You'll be glad you did after all's said and done. I decided to retain my non-decoder controlled turnouts because it's what I'm used to and it's just as easy for me to flick the toggle under my fascia as it is to use my Super Throttle. This also allows operators who are using the Utility Throttles to have full control of the turnouts too. Before you get started wiring, or even buying or looking for appropriate DCC wire, ask this board for advice. A lot of us have "been there, done that" and you can learn from our successes and mistakes. Hope this helps out with more specific advice, which is what I think you were looking for. Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
My Thanks to all, I think I have enough info now not to do something dumb/ expensive out of the gate. I'd planned on a test/ break in loop to get familiar with the tech., and to run while the bench work is in progress. Oh, yes it's the Xtra. I'm much more comfortable with this change now. Thanx, Bobby
That is a good choice to start. Your system is still scaleable with boosters and other niceties like wireless throttles, stationary decoders etc. About the only thing you may really want at this time is the PR3 for programming the decoders. Once the reluctance for decoder programming is overcome, DCC will really open up for you. As for the circuit breakers etc, you don't need to worry about them until you have your benchwork and layout are figured out so you know what you are really going to need.
Just to clarify. Yes, you don't need to "worry" about the circuit breakers yet, but keep it in mind when designing your layout that certain sections need to be isolated from each other, so that when a short happens, such as in your yard...it doesn't shut down the rest of the layout. Knowing that it's easy to create power blocks which are isolated by circuit breakers will assist you when you both design your layout and lay track (gapping your track appropriately as well as wiring it correctly). Just sayin'.... Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
Thank you, PS3 and PSX are on their way, I've read/heard that I might need a power booster for programming, specifically Tsunami, or no?
Probably not. Your Zephyr Xtra has what Digitrax calls "Burst" programming, which kicks in a little extra voltage to do the same thing as a Soundtraxx PTB-100 does. So, your Zephyr should program them without any problems. However, if there IS a problem, it's a simple task to install the Soundraxx PTB-100. One philosophy about programming tracks is that when in programming mode, they should have dead zones equal to the length of your longest engine on either side if it's a siding and it runs back onto powered track. This means that the programming track has three modes (1) TRACK POWER, (2) FULL OFF, NO POWER, and (3) PROGRAM, with safety dead zones on either end. This protocol solves three problems. (1) Sometimes, when you get an engine acting up, or you buy a used engine, or somebody brings an engine over to run on your layout and you don't know the address, or the engine isn't responding to its address, you need a programming track. To program in Ops Mode out on DCC powered track, you have to address the engine...which is kinda hard to do if you don't know the address. If you do know the address, then all is dandy, but when you don't know the address of a particular engine, you put it on the programming track and read the CV's which will tell you the addresses which are programmed into that engine...you don't need to address engines on the programming track...just plop them on and start reading CV's and programming. (2) After you install a decoder NEVER...and I mean NEVER assume it's installed correctly. Put your programing track on "PROGRAM" (a much smaller voltage than "RUN" and plop your newly DCC-ized engine onto the programming track, and read some CV's to see if the decoder is working, the first one always is to read CV 002, which is the 2 digit address that all new engines are programmed with, which is 03. When you do this, your engine will stutter back and forth a little and the headlight will flicker. This means the decoder is working okay. Now you can program it's 4 digit address, turn the programming track to "RUN" and acquire your new engine, then run it out onto the layout for testing and evaluation. (3) If you've got ANALOG engines you've been running on the layout using address "0" with your Zephyr, and you're done running them and you don't want to take them off the layout, then run them down to your programming track and flick your toggle to it's center position, which is "OFF". This keeps the ANALOG DC engines from cooking out on a DCC powered track as they sit there and "sing" due to the oscillating nature of the power. It doesn't take long to cook a DC motor when it's stopped, so your programming track can double as a place to safely park your ANALOG DC engines. Complete instructions on how to do this with a 4-Pole/double-throw toggle switch are all over the web. Just substitute a center-off one to get the "FULL OFF, NO POWER" feature.
Will do, I'll get some HS/LD wire from a car audio shop and I have a couple DPDT center off switches on hand so should be no prob to wire it up. I really appreciate you folks taking the time to get me headed down the right track. As usual I'm late to the party, and it can be intimidating to try and figure it out w/o help. Thnx Bobby
I've got the zephyr up and running now, I did have to use burst programming to change the address on the Tsunami, but once I got the switchology right,(track power ON while programming), it was easy enough. This is going to be cool. Thank You all for keeping my head above water while I learn to swim. Bobby
Robert I really like the well-organized power set-up you have and the photo was very helpful. I was curious what the gauge was on the red and black wires is-I assume that is your power bus? Would you mind giving me a brief narrative on how you have it set up? Thanks a million. Steve
Robert I'm interested in how you have your command station, it looks like it is screwed in or something for stability. How did you do that?
