I just bought a Life-Like/Walthers 2-8-4 Berkshire in N scale. I equipped it with DCC. However, it derails the forward drivers even when I'm hauling nothing on 9 3/4" curves on my layout. That's crap. When I try to pack the nose with weight, it still derails. I'm completely frustrated with this engine because I wanted it to model an N scale Polar Express. I don't want the ConCor Berkshires because the detailing is crap, and that leaves me with the only other option, which is a Key Imports 2-8-4, but that's going to be a pretty penny. Anyone know how to get the front end on the 2-8-4 Berkshire to stay down on the rails? I know about the lack of pulling power, which I should be able to rectify with Bull Frog Snot.
Check the track gauge at the points of derailment. Check to see if the drivers are in gauge especially the front set and last try it on 11 inch radius. Just maybe the 9.75 is too tight for it.
John - thanks for replying. The track is Kato Unitrack, so I doubt that's a problem. I'll check it though. The drivers and all wheels are in gauge. I wonder if there are any ways to stop the front end from riding up over the rails. I'll try the outside track on my layout, which has 11" radius curves to see if the 9 3/4" radius curves are too tight. However, that would suck because Walthers advertised that the engine would ride on 9 3/4" radius curves easily.
Any desire to share how you converted this loco to DCC? Last I heard you had to remove the motor and isolate it. I have never had any luck taking the drivers loose on a steam loco. Thanks.
It was easy. I took off the shell, and slipped a piece of paper in between the contact strips on the motor and each half of the frame to isolate the motor. Then I just soldered wires to the motor contacts and ran them to the tender. Easy.
I checked the gauge of the Kato Unitrack, and it was all in gauge. Contrary to what Walthers said, maybe 9 3/4" radius curves are too tight. Grrrrrr.
My Bachmann 2-8-8-4 will have no problem on 9 3/4" radius curves. I wonder what it is with this particular locomotive that it won't run on three of the four 9 3/4" radius curves sections. Like I said, on the one that is coming down from a hill, it has no problem on that section of 9 3/4" curves.
gatrhumpy...I am concerned about the trouble you are having. the locomotive was tested a very short time after purchasing on a Christmas layout, it was made with Kato unitrak but the 15/16.3" double track, superelevated curves. it ran well without problems while I would have liked it to pull better. it ran fine with the MTL 12 days of Christmas cars plus the caboose. Let me know if the locomotive is defective in some way. Thanks! Gary
Gary - thanks for your concern. It's not defective (at least that I can discern now). I did take out the drawbar wires and add insulated wires between each half of the frame and the copper strips in the tender. This made the drawbar wires useless. It runs well now on straight track. I'm going to try to use Bullfrog Snot to see if it will pull more. If it doesn't, I just may see if I can get my money back and sell it on eBay as DCC equipped. No other Berkshires are on eBay that are DCC-equipped in N scale.
I have a complete tutorial on how to convert a Berk to DCC without removing the drivers/motor. I put the decoder in the cab, though you could probably fit a TCS Z2 in the boiler itself. It is essentially the same idea: isolate the motor contacts with a piece of paper or cardstock. If you want the tutorial (it's a PDF file), email me at jdcolombo@gmail.com My experience with the Berk is that depending on how much free play there is in the drivers, they won't play well on anything less than 11" curves. I have 10 of them; about half did fine on a 10" curve on my old layout, and about half derailed. The same is true of other large steam (Kato GS4; Athearn Challenger) that are supposed to negotiate 9.75" - if everything is just right, yes, but . . . As for pulling power, instead of using Bullfrog Snot (which works, but I could never get an even coat on the drivers), what I do is cut a 1.5mm wide strip of Scotch double-sided tape about 2" long (this is the thin double-sided tape in the yellow/black dispenser, NOT the foam tape). Then I invert the engine, apply power, and feed the strip around one of the #3 drivers, cutting it with a new #11 blade just as it is about to overlap on itself. Repeat for other driver. My "tape traction tires" let me pull 30+ car trains on my flat layout. No, the adhesive on the tape doesn't gum up your rail; instead, what happens is that the adhesive picks up dirt and dust, which just makes tractive effort better. However, you will need to make darn sure that your tender electrical pickup is perfect, because when you do this (or use Bullfrog Snot), the engine becomes pretty much useless for electrical pickup (intermittent at best). But if you have good tender pickup, it isn't a problem. The tape eventually wears out - five minute replacement and you're good to go again. Worked much better than Bullfrog Snot for me (the Snot got me up to about 18 cars - mine are all weighted to 1 oz. or more, so YMMV. But the tape gets me routinely above 30, at which point the front end of the engine starts to lift around even 15" curves). Here's a video of one of my sound-equipped Berks with my tape traction tires pulling a train around my layout (fast forward to about the 2-minute mark to see the whole train - it's 23 cars plus caboose): [video=youtube_share;CtrO8NB8bRE]http://youtu.be/CtrO8NB8bRE[/video] My hope is that Bachmann will do a Spectrum version of the HO Berk in N sometime soon. The HO version is wonderfully-detailed, including the Mars light that LifeLike left out. Given Bachmann's recent excellent steam releases (2-8-0; the B&O EM-1; the ten-wheeler; the 2-10-2; etc.), I can only hope. John C.
FWIW, my Life-Like 2-8-4 has no problems negotiating the 180 degree / 9.75"-radius curves of my test track loop. Track is Atlas Code 80. Cheers, -Mark
Let me share some of my experiences with bullfrog snot. I noticed that is says clean up with water on package. So i tried adding some water to the snot to thin it. That works great much smoother surface. My next thought was to take a small hobby paint brush and dip in water, shook off the excess and used the tip of brush to wipe against the snot. That thinned it even more and left a very smooth surface on the snot. I ran the loco in a cradle while doing this. Let run until the snot changed color and waited 24 hours before trying on track. Doug
This is why I really want this to try to work. I read your website Mark about trying to pack the weight. I wish there were some metal castings available to replace the smokebox front and the pilot with heavy metal. That would help. Even replace the plastic shell with a metal shell.
John - I followed your tutorial about the DCC conversion - thanks! I will find a sound decoder for this, but I don't want to if I cant get this to work on my layout. You can search for me on Youtube (gatrhumpy1) to see my layout in action. The inner track is where my Berkshire is having problems.
There can be any number of factors in the why of the front drivers jumping the track if the track is in gauge. First of all the 2-8-4 should have larger drivers than the 2-8-8-4 which would mean a longer engine wheelbase for the 2-8-4. Thus the smaller drivers have a shorter wheelbase and also articulate which is an advantage. Is there lateral play in the drivers at all and are any of the drivers blind that could help in tight curvature. Can the tender drawbar possibly be raising the loco front. Last could there be a change in manufacturing between the first release and subsequent releases. And if it constantly derails on the same section of track and not others of similar radius then it is the track. There is mention of this loco being light in the front end when a load is behind the tender causing the front to raise enough under pulling load to derail. I believe you mentioned this occurring with no consist tied behind the tender but is it going upgrade when this happens? Going upgrade would tend to shift the weight to the rear depending on grade and again could raise the front enough to derail. That is about it from this old mind for now.
The combination of the larger drivers and sharp curves may be causing the locomotive to climb the rails thus making the front drivers derail. My B-mann consoldiateds and LL Berkshires used to climb Atlas nine and three quarter. I never tried them on Kato. THe Kato Mikado ran on the Atlas nine and three quarter, but did not like it. All of the above will run on both Atlas and Bachpersonn eleven inch. I never tried it on the Kato. They all run on the Kato thirteen and three quarter. Truthfully, a Berkshire looks better on a fifteen inch or better, curve.
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Georgia, Verdana]gatrhumpy[/FONT] I am wondering about the incline and decline in track with these curves as noted. does the grade have anything to do with the derailing? I could fathom a driver wanting to clim a rail, especially on a grade of small curved radius. just trying to be helpful. Gary
John - thanks for the reply. First - the 2-8-8-4 does have slightly smaller drivers. However, my 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain has the same size drivers, and it runs fine on the 9 3/4" radius curves. Second - there is significant lateral freeplay in the 2-8-4 drivers. None of the drivers are blind, but if I did choose to grind off the flange on any of the drivers, I know I would not do it on the first or fourth pair of drivers. Should I grind off the second or third pair of drivers? Third - I'm not sure the drawbar is causing any of this. I looked closely at the front pair of drivers, and around these curves they seem to be slowly working their way up off the rail. Maybe I'll try running it slowly around the curve by gently lifting the tender, but I'm not so sure it would even run without the tender. Fourth - correct. It derails whether there is a load behind the tender or not. It does derail during part of the loop where it goes uphill on 9 3/4" curves, but not the downhill section. Weird. I'm going to continue to try to see why it derails. Frustrating.
Yeah, I know. All good points. However, I'm stuck with a 30" by 48" layout (because that's all my wife will allow me to build), so the inner loop has to be 9 3/4" curves. For the record, the LL Berkshire does derail on flat sections of 11" curves on the outside loop too. Here is a small video of my layout with another engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2gvbGnIDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfdLw_mhMq4
