The Things We Do For Love Last April 14th ♥My Love♥ and her daughter moved in with me. This is a joyous event. Sigh. The layout which now occupies 40+ linear feet along the dining and livingroom walls takes up too much room where it ranges from two to three feet deep. It is just tooooo much. Arrrrrg! At my own, (she has not complained at all, not even a whisper), initiative I am negotiating a new approach. I have offered to reduce the foot print down to six, 12, and 24 inches if I can have three, (3), unconnected shelves. Shelf One - Would be about 30"s off the floor. It would be a mountainous area with a larger yard, (the 12" part), and loops, (the 24" part), at each end to turn a train for continuous running. There would be long trains of 'Mystrium" running from the Grandure Valley to places unknown. These would be interspersed with modern grain trains and mixed freight. Shelf Two - Would be 18"s higher. It would be more of an agrarian environment with with farms, towns and small factories. It would be 6" to 12"s deep and point to point. Local freights with switching along the way interspersed with excursion and some 'inter-city' train would be its focus. Shelf Three would be about 12" to 18" higher and no more than 12"s deep at the terminals. It would be a 'hyper-modern' point to point with bullet trains. All buildings would be scratch built. Only this shelf would continue along the 3rd wall. If possible it would be highly computerized Bench Work of Proposed Shelf One, (bottom shelf): . I left a crude outline of the original plan. The bench work down the right was removed before she moved in. Shelf 3, (top shelf), will run down that wall passing behind a TV, (5"s of space), and then expanding to a 12" shelf for a hyper-modern terminal.
Introducing: The Grey and Grandure VI-3 I have given up approximately 40 square feet of benchwork footprint to gain almost 50 additional square feet of layout. I have traded off mixing all of my trains on one level / scenery / era for three levels with different scenery, 'time spans' and equipment. Bonus!: I have dramatically simplified the wiring. In truth I have not counted out the exact square footage loss / gain but I'm pretty sure it is close. Preliminary drawing of the dining room portion: The bullet train level with have one or two 'layers' of double track mainline and run the full lenght from dining room to bottom right of the living room. The 2nd shelf will be a one track branch line with at least one interchange. Main power will be 4 axial geeps and such The bottom level will be mostly unit trains with mixed freight and such.
Comments, critiques, consideration, and cuestions positive and negative are invited. //Note: 1) 'cuestions' is deliberately spelled with a 'c'. 2) Levity / banter is encouraged.
Timeline Many of you know I have not 'completed' a model railroad since high school. Arrrrg! Ok, I admit it. I like designing / imagining / creating and solving problems more than building. I would pay to have my dreams completed if that was practical. It is not. That is not to say I have not had trains running. It just does not last long. The Timeline for the Grey and Grandure: In the next three months I have to: Get rid of a lot of stuff Plan a kitchen renovation Get married - June 14th. Burn up vacation time on honeymoon. Sooooo, if all goes well, (famous last words): July 1, 2014 - Deconstruction begins on the current GandG August 1, 2014 - Kitchen renovations start and all work on the GandG halts September 1, 2014 - I pay a carpenter to put up shelf brackets, fascia and track lighting under shelves. Since this will be in the dining / living room area it must be perfectly level and very strong - hence the professional. It must also be attractive so the fascia will be finished wood. October 1, 2014 - Foam will be laid over shelves. This will vary from 2" to 6"s thick to allow for valleys and bridges. October 1 to December 1, 2014 - get trains running on 1st level. This is a priority. Advanced wiring would be a bonus. January 2015 - Get some scenery down on Level 1. Next several months, (3 to 6), of 2015 - Get track and wiring done on Levels 2 and 3. Next several months, (6 to 12) - Run trains, add scenery, explore programing possibilities. By July of 2016 - Almost all track work is done, (maybe not all of Level 3). All wiring is done - except possibly the programing on Levels 1 and 3 Level 1 scenery is 30% done Level 2 scenery is 60% done Level 3 scenery is in mock up stage. This will be scratch built 'hyper-modern' buildings with programing for lights, sound, and ? who knows? There are 10s of possible life events that can throw off the timeline. I wonder what the chances are I'll succeed. As always, comments and cuestions are welcome.
Naming Places - Honoring Friends and Family I have had a LOT of help from 10s, (100s?), of people over the years. If I start with my first layout in high school it would be my father whose intellect guided mine but certainly my mother's artistic background influenced every line I drew, color I selected, and balances I applied. My siblings have had their say, (positive or not). Then there are the, "People of Trainboard" of whom I believe I have met six or more. Still 10s of the folks here have directly impacted on the development, construction, and scenery of the GandG layout(s). I've been laughed at by some, *shrug* and I've pissed off a few folks as well. That does not matter. Your name belongs with the others. Partial List - Family My father: - A fence of DIMM, (memory chips), as a memorial to him. My mother: - Still working on it - maybe the whole layout. Sister Sandra - The Sandy Hills Ranch Sister Paula - Not sure, I better ask Brother Ted - Hmm, better check with him tooo Laura, (my fiance), - Laura's Valley which will be an agrarian area on Level 2. Ashlee, (her eldest daughter), - Ash Mountain and Lee Mountain Sylvia, (her youngest daughter), She has agreed to help with a very tall hyper-modern tower. This may be more of an 'anchor' piece at the far right end of the layout. It may be 12"s X 24"s X 70"s, (seventy), not a typo. More later. Jelani, (son of eldest daughter), - Not sure Chris, (Jelani's Dad), - Still working on it. The next list will be folks from Trainboard.
The first shelf will be 2 and a half feet off the floor? Don't know how tall you are, but that is just below my hips and I'd have to run that shelf while sitting in a low chair. Why did you plan the mountain layout for the bottom of the stack? Wouldn't it be better as top shelf, so the mountains could rise unimpeded into the sky over the scenery? With that change, the bullet trains shelf-- which sounds like operations of fast trains moving from point to point, with no switching and nothing more than main lines -- sounds like a better candidate for the lowest level since the trains there would only be moving as units from station to station, not needing tending by hand to throw switches or uncouple cars, and thus a better "walking along with the train" situation. (compared to rolling along in a chair). Or sitting in a chair away from the layout and watching the bullet trains move across a wide scene. (Don't know if you'll have DCC)
Levels Height - Pros and Cons @Backshop - Excellent points, Thank you for the observations and questions. They have been more useful than one may realize. I never considered the ramifications of the height of 'Level 1' beyond its impact on the height of Levels 1&2. Ya, I'm 5'8. 30"s is well below the belt loops. Changes - After discussing the various pros and cons with Laura, (aka 'Director of Land Grants and Management'), height and design changes were made. Levels Height - I can't have my cake and eat it too. Level 1 - 'The Heavy Freight Level' - Height change is From 30"s to 31"s. Reason? 31"s is window sill height. Any higher would block out too much of the window. As it is there will be 2" to 4"s of foam for scenery rising above that 'line'. Shhhhh, don't tell the DLGM. Issue #1 - It is right at the 4yo's height. I will have to also build in a plexiglass 'window' to be in place when he visits. Issue #2 - Yes, it is way tooooo low. I do not see a practical way around this. Life goes on. Issue #3 - With cabinets below this level I will have to bury the wiring in the foam. Level 2 - 'The Museum Level' - Height Change From: 45"s to 53(ish)"s. to match the height of the windows "meeting rail', (where the upper and lower windows 'meet' when closed. This is 23"s above 'Level 1'. Yes, there will be one to two inches of foam on it. Issue #1 - Still reachable by children and will need a window barrier. Issue #2 - It is a little higher than I wanted for viewing while seated in the living room. Oh well. Level 3 - 'The Hyper-Modern Level' - Will be 15"s, (give or take), higher putting it at 68"s. I feel 15"s should give enough space for the viewing of 'Level 2' and a nice backdrop. Issue #1 - It is higher than I like but, Oh well. Issue #2 - There is no issue #2. Life is good. Comments? Cuestions? Ideas? Solutions? I'll try to post pics of the space tonight.
Steve, I recommend a gardening seat for working on the low shelf, possibly all shelves. I use one for working in the garage, train room, even outside. Downside is that the wheels do not swivel. Though probably not a problem for your application just rolling back and forth along the shelf.
Hey Steve... I use an Adjustable Mechanics Seat seat to glide up an down the aisle in THE RV. This one to be exact. http://www.sears.com/craftsman-adjustable-mechanics-seat/p-00951164000P My layout sits just 36 inches off the floor becuase of window heights and because I use kitchen base cabinets as the 'benchwork' for THERR. Plus I am disabled. The Adjustable Mechanics Seat works great. Of course any 'wheeled' seat pretty much puts you dead in the water if you have carpeting anywhere. ;-)
Grey One, can you start over with your numbers; I am confused. Just kidding. I have a couple of observations. 1. Bullet trains - running bullet trains from end to end really is prototypical, but will last about 7 seconds from one end to the other. Are you going to using some sort of reversing system like Bachmann makes (about $100 but I think you have to use their track)? 2. Early in this thread, you mentioned shelf 3 would be 12" deep but you plan on having at least 4 tracks with crossovers for the bullet trains; is that enough space. My bigger question would be the radius of the curves going from one wall to the other. Bullet trains do not like small radius curves. 3. On your last post showing shelf 2, you show a turnaround at one end. You will need an absolute minimum of 20" depth to acheive a 9 3/4" radius circle. Does having a turnaround on one end and not the other make sense? 4. I was somewhat serious about starting the numbers over. Shelf length and width is a good starting point. Not being critical.
One more question. Is there any way you can use a 36 x 80 HCD and hinge it one side to the wall and fold it down to play with and work on trains? It would give you the continuous running and you could make some switching in the middle. I am assuming you have some serious space constraints.
Dave - Please call me Steve. Thanks! for the questions, thoughts, and suggestions. All inputs generate suggestions / ideals. In truth, yes, I have been considering that. As I begin to flesh out the plan I feel It is time to go back to version 1. More accurately just plain: "Grey and Grandure". I intend to program that level using 'CTT' software and sensors. I don't need Bman. As the ceiling is the only limits there will be two levels of track on 'Level 3'. The corners will be 2' deep. The drawing is off. Hence the note: "Track plan is abstracted." toward the bottom left of the drawing. So am I as this is likely to be the last version. An HCD is a good idea and I have also considered that option. It's not viable. A 'map' of the dining / living room will be forth and 5th coming. Again, Thanks! for the questions and suggestions.
Steve, The other suggestion I was thinking about last night would be to start a thread for each of the three shelves just to keep thing simpler. For me, trying to plan three distinct layouts could get overwhelming pretty quickly; I would try to tackle one a time while keeping in mind the future expansion. You mentioned tha shelf 3 was going to be 58" or something like that. If you have two levels of track, that is going to be eye level for you and probably too tall for anyone else to see. For you to reach to the back to rerail a train or something could prove cumbersome. Is there any way you could combine the three shelves into two shelves; maybe even with a helix on end and runarounds on the other ends? Just some random thoughts.
Hello Dave and Everyone, I missed this in your first set of questions: I'll be using Kato's double track mainline stuff. Corners will be adjusted to accommodate that. Still, yes, if I can have a 4 track 12" deep terminal at each end I will. Even as I think about it in theory at that height I'll be able to nudge / increase the dimensions if need be. I'll try to get a semi-scale plan done soon. I just looked at the plans again. They do show a 2' deep corner for both layouts at both ends. Originally 'Level 2' was to be a 'point-to-point' - and the 'grey area' will be used operationally in that manner. The loop at one end is an after thought and something of a bonus. In fact, that loop began life when I saved my 'Level 1' plan to a new name to use it as a template for 'Level 2'. As I began to edit the track I realized that it might work like that. Operationally it should work quite nicely with trains running slowly through almost 20' of idyllic scenes. With clean track and a nice Atlas Geep round trip should take about 5 minutes. If I have it pull over for a bit that would allow time for switching and train makeup to be finished in the city. Your latest thought provoking questions: Most likely it is my training or ADD or both but I have no trouble keeping everything straight. I am definitely accustomed to such tasks under a controlled environment. If it would help others I could break it down into 3 separate threads possibly with a 'master thread'. Visibility and Reach: On a project of this magnitude I will be building a scale mockup, (Thanks to Boxcab for the frequent promoter of the idea). I'll include furniture and such. A custom viewing / working stand is anticipated. This might be in the form of a ladder / chair. Not sure. "The Two Foot Rule" - 'No portion of the layout shall exceed 2' in depth as measured perpendicular from the wall' is absolute and I will not violate it. A great thought but, no. 'in theory' I could link 'Levels 1 and 2' with a helix but with an 11"s radius I just don't see the payoff. I also liked the HCD idea. It just won't fly. Dave - your questions have been thought provoking and by extension quite helpful. Thank you.
Train Length It may be helpful to give an idea of the trains that will be running. Level 1 - Shortest: 1 Atlas Geep, 10 or so 2 bay hoppers, no caboose Longest: 2 Kato AC 4400s bookend style leading 20+ modern grain cars with a possible Atlas Geep in the middle. The issue here would be the 11" reverse loops. That might not be viable. It is hoped that the mid-train Geep will pick up the drag going through the turn and avoid string-lining. Level 2 - Shortest: 1 Geep and one car in a switching move and maybe a caboose. Longest: 1 Geep or steamer and a max of 10 shorter mixed freight cars. Cabooses outside of the city. Level 3 - Whatever those trains are. Shortest - 2.5'? Longest - 3.5'?
Steve, I am not sure what bullet trains you have, but I thought I have read somewhere that some of them need like 18" radius curves. Not sure about that but it might be worthwhile to check into it. On your Level 1, I think the AC4400 on each end will be OK to pull 20 grin cars. Those should have no problem handling 11" radius curves.
